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[Bauglir]

If we all agree that everybody should be able to get treatment for medical conditions, why does anybody support a system that allows that not to happen?

[Flare]

You can't expect people who read your comments to know what you assumptions are. You'll have to elaborate on your comments for people to know what position you have.

[Trollheiming]

I'm a healthy strapping young lad and I'd rather have money than insurance. I don't want insurance. Now I have to pay over $600 a year.

All of you have to pay either $600 or 2.5% of your income if that is higher, and unless you're under $24,000 right now, it definitely is more. The exemption is you're making under $9,350 a year. So unless you deliver papers, get ready for a sizeable bite.

Hopefully you all get sick enough to get your money's worth!

[Flare]

Why stop there? Surely you feel robbed when you pay for the roads that you don't ever see yourself using too right? Or possibly the fire crews or the police.

If you're old enough to leave the country for tax free havens, you're probably old enough to understand that you've basically chosen to build your future in a country that, for the forseable future, will tax you for thing you might not want.

[kaijyuu]

Want to get your money's worth? Go visit the doctor more often for a checkup. The more often you go, the longer you live statistically speaking, as you'll catch problems before they become serious.

[Trollheiming]

Why stop there? Surely you feel robbed when you pay for the roads that you don't ever see yourself using too right?

Roads are local taxes. I assuredly do use local roads, and everyone else also uses local roads, except shut-ins who are hard pressed to make enough to be taxed. Not to imply that I'm paying this much for the whole local tax, let alone just roads.

You aren't going to find a proper analogue for this, because this money grab is unprecendented, and it hits low-income workers with a vengeance.

[Flare]

Why stop there? Surely you feel robbed when you pay for the roads that you don't ever see yourself using too right?

Roads are local taxes. I assuredly do use local roads, and everyone else also uses local roads, except shut-ins who are hard pressed to make enough to be taxed. Not to imply that I'm paying this much for the whole local tax, let alone just roads.

Surely you don't use every square inch of the roads in your local area right? I think it's reasonable to assume that most people are being taxed for roads that they will never drive or walk upon in their entire life even if it's just a few kilometres away.

You aren't going to find a proper analogue for this, because this money grab is unprecendented, and it hits low-income workers with a vengeance.

Analogues depend on type, not magnitude. If the structure of the analogue fits well, it works.

[kaijyuu]

it hits low-income workers with a vengeance.

You want to hit those with higher incomes harder, and those with lower incomes less? Sounds good to me.


I don't like it as-is either, but mostly because it's still "insurance." I'd much rather free healthcare, not only for the moral reasons (hitting people with debt who have already gone through whatever traumatic experience landed them in the hospital in the first place is obviously a Bad Thing), but because it lowers costs overall. Insurance implies profit. Not to mention the disincentive to visit the doctor when it costs you; little problems become big problems when untreated, so avoiding the doctor is also obviously a Bad Thing. Big problems cost more in addition to killing and maiming more.

[Flare]

but because it lowers costs overall. Insurance implies profit. Not to mention the disincentive to visit the doctor when it costs you; little problems become big problems when untreated, so avoiding the doctor is also obviously a Bad Thing. Big problems cost more in addition to killing and maiming more.

Sometimes it might not be entirely financial though, there's also a lot of anxiety over the symptoms that lead to people to procrastinate. I don't have any data on which of the two plays of the heavier role though.

[Trollheiming]

Analogues depend on type, not magnitude. If the structure of the analogue fits well, it works.

And you're talking local taxes and local issues. The types don't match. The analogue fails.

The "every square inch" argument is just kind of silly, btw. Substantial use is derived. That suffices. I also leave crumbs in a carton of fries!

[Frumple]

You're still making incredibly heavy use of federal funded transport infrastructure -- that you even have Internet access necessitates that -- regardless, albeit not as directly as simply driving on them yourself. So, you're still paying for roads you never directly use and will never see, one way or another.

Will admit I've never bothered to check where that money gets funded in, though, so whatev'. Still, comes from federal money, you're being taxed one way or another for it.

[kaijyuu]

Even better: You pay for those roads, yet everyone can use them. Those dirty out of towners passing through? They should make their own goddamn road instead of freeloading!


It may not be a perfect analogy, but if anything, that's a point in the healthcare side's favor. Roads are used by people who pay squat for them far more often.

[Trollheiming]

it hits low-income workers with a vengeance.

You want to hit those with higher incomes harder, and those with lower incomes less? Sounds good to me.

Obamacare, by contrast, has a minimum individual penalty of $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, and rising up to 2.5 percent of income (or $2,085 maximum) per family in 2016.

Well, 2.5% unless the total is over $2085 means that the people really being targeted hardest are between $9350 and $83400 a year. Any richer than that, and it becomes a mere blip. Meanwhile, if you make $9500, you are paying 3.4% of your income in 2015 and beyond. This is a tax on the lower middle-class and the working poor.

It may not be a perfect analogy, but if anything, that's a point in the healthcare side's favor. Roads are used by people who pay squat for them far more often.

Yet you do use the roads. End of story. The rest is strawmanning, and I'll politely leave you to do that undisturbed.

[Truean]

Analogues depend on type, not magnitude. If the structure of the analogue fits well, it works.

And you're talking local taxes and local issues. The types don't match. The analogue fails.

The "every square inch" argument is just kind of silly, btw. Substantial use is derived. That suffices. I also leave crumbs in a carton of fries!

No. http://www.dot.gov/

Yeah. Do they not teach Eisenhower's federal freeway system based on the autobahn he found in Germany when he invaded and how it was originally designed for rapid troop deployment and straight stretch aircraft landings when not in civilian use/during emergency or wartime? It's a perfect analogy and the individual funding source doesn't matter because anywhere you go is gonna have to somehow have roads which you indirectly use, because you'll buy things shipped across those roads or meet/do business with people from those places.

[Mr. Palau]

Why not just stop at this. THERE IS NO ENFORMENT PROVISION IN OBAMA CARE. IT HAS NO INDIVIDUAL MANDATE. THERE IS NO WAY THEY CAN MAKE YOU PAY THE FINE. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2864950/posts