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Author Topic: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?  (Read 6103 times)

Garath

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2012, 07:52:40 pm »

Horribly cheaty is just raising a bridge and turtleing

No sieging enemy would go without moat filling stuff, battering rams or scaling ladders and more. Using drawbridges to seal anything off is cheating

senseless topic, anyone?
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zeziba

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2012, 08:05:05 pm »

Horribly cheaty is just raising a bridge and turtleing

No sieging enemy would go without moat filling stuff, battering rams or scaling ladders and more. Using drawbridges to seal anything off is cheating

senseless topic, anyone?

Also if you changed the world gen in any way trying to get the perfect site for embark, that also can be considered exploiting the system. Truly is is a single player game any method that is used is fair game because the only person you are cheating is yourself. That statement needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
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Chaos Armor

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2012, 08:12:59 pm »

I've been playing Dwarf Fortress for quite a few years and it is my opinion that there is no such thing as "cheating" in Dwarf Fortress. But as I said it's opinion, if you think that sealing up locations with drawbridges is cheating then don't do it. If you see danger rooms as cheating, don't use them.

As zeziba put it,
Truly is is a single player game any method that is used is fair game because the only person you are cheating is yourself.
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2012, 08:20:30 pm »

You can do that in-game for floors, so it's less of a cheat than a time-saver.

I think the cheatiest thing I do beyond modding out aquifers and using reveal to decide where to dig is setting the mineral scarcity to 100. Like danger rooms, it's a thing the game allows, but it's a major shortcut.
You can but you can't engrave constructed floors. You can construct and deconstruct to revert a vein back to the layer but that's no help for walls or intersecting layers.

omniclasm

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2012, 08:38:23 pm »

Exploit, in a game like this, is entirely a subjective word.

I don't use danger rooms.

But is walling the doors to your fort considered exploiting? You essentially remove any threat.
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Shawarma

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2012, 09:15:48 pm »

I don't cheat. I just jack up the natural skill levels of dwarfs to something more realistic, such as legendary knowledge acquisition, observer, concentration, situational awareness, student, and teacher, because, you know, dwarves are better than you and me.

And what dwarf wouldn't have 5000 strength and agility? They'd eat their own babies before allowing inferior DNA (Deoxyribonucleic my butt; the D stands for Dwarf) into their society.

Natural skill of legendary wrestling? Hell yeah! Dwarf babies would rip you head off, but you already know this.

Smelting? Are you kidding me? Dwarves NEED a steady diet of smoke and metal shavings to grow up. This one biological fact has ingrained the smelting process into their subconsciousness! Duh!

So no I don't cheat. I just restore the Dwarves to their true glory as beings of awesomeness.
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Panando

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2012, 11:22:35 pm »

It's kind of like asking "what's your opinion on modding?"

I play using Fortress Defense Mod. I've modded plants to take 4x longer to grow and outdoor plants are seasonal and underground aren't. I've modded steel production to get 4 steel bars per flux stone.

I use DFHack prospect all, reveal (occasionally), autodump (occasionally), cleanowned, vdig (though that's scarcely an exploit). Usually I use these things when I think the dwarves should be able to do these things (for example using autodump to recover an item which has fallen into a pond, which a dwarf should be able to fish out with a long pole. And I attribute the prospect/reveal stuff with dwarves being good prospectors and/or having a supernatural ability to sense metals).

I refuse to buy or use training axes for woodcutting. On embark I don't buy single units of food etc to get freebie barrels/bags. But I do buy metal ores rather than bars to get bars at about 1/16th the cost, and I buy raw materials rather than finished goods - basically the prices just aren't balanced at all although the intent probably is that metal bars are the cost you "should" be looking at and the raw materials should be maybe half as expensive at most, but not 1/16th. Gold nuggets basically "should" cost 4x as much as gold bars and native gold blocks.
Basically how I see it, is a wooden axe shouldn't be able to cut down a tree. You shouldn't be able to buy a wombat heart and a barrel, for less than buying a barrel without a wombat heart. You should be able to save money by buying raw materials and processing them. So if it's a matter of the balance being off, I exploit heartily. But if it's a matter of defiance of common sense, I usually refrain.
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Kar98

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2012, 11:46:43 pm »

I'm there to have fun and if I do things that others consider cheating then so what. I've used danger rooms but stopped because I found it was far too easy to kill off any invaders that came my way, thus reducing the fun. I edit raws to add more things into the game which I wouldn't consider cheating. The only time I've legitimately 'cheated' was when I used dfliquids to save my 30 military dwarves from getting the insta death airbourne syndrome from a FB. I didn't want my fort to collapse because I got lazy with lowering bridges. No regrets
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Lightningfalcon

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2012, 11:59:14 pm »

I like to set my embark points to 10,000, and my mineral scarcity to 500. (I never get Flux at 100)
I also never use danger rooms, even thou I don't consider it cheating. 
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Nil Eyeglazed

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2012, 12:39:15 am »

When I read about Dupree's adamantine factory, there were a bunch of people complaining about it being an exploit.  I thought they missed the entire point-- this was a brilliant, carefully thought out machine that demonstrated imagination and talent.  It's not like he needed the adamantine to survive or something.

Things like that are exploits in the less commonly used, more positive sense.
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Friendstrange

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2012, 03:05:15 am »

Adv mode dfhack reveal + bodyswap force is a-ok to get the sewer targets. Tricky buggers.

Autodump relocation is ok when the idiots are throwing sand, seeds, cloth, and the giant grasshopper we just caught, into the garbage dump atomsmasher. Still trying to figure out how this is happening.

Atomsmashers are fun and are great temporary solutions until you can dig a magma garbage schute and the caravans keep dying to zombie thrips men, spreading useless junk everywhere. I like fun, it has the strange side effect of making me happy.

Havent tried the [500] coin/bolt thing. I never "run out" of ore or goblinite. And to be honest it doesnt seem at all necesary.

Honestly, what one considers exploits or "cheating" is completely subjective. Danger rooms can be as legit as making squads of two guys spar depending on the eye of the beholder. Just do what you want and let others do what they want.

EDIT: Also modifying creatures to spice things up is awesome. Giant Rhinoceros Corpse Husk, with hooves, my god.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 03:08:37 am by Friendstrange »
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Madventurer

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2012, 04:02:52 am »

Toady gave us the ability to mod raws. I can't imagine why we wouldn't be allowed.

Pretty much sums up my opinion.
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Broken

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2012, 05:00:57 am »

I allow myself to use each exploit once- Usually once per fort. Given the enormous amount of existing exploits, i have not yet used all, even after a lot of forts. A little exception are the danger rooms, because i use those to improve soldiers i think deserve to be legendary(like
my current militia commander, that after two hundred kills is not yet a hammerlord).
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Z1000000m

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2012, 05:51:38 am »

I'd only consider cheating if I'm planning on  a megaproject and I either want to check the ground (prospect) or I want to use uncommon materials that would take ages to trade for ( limestone block tower with steel supports).
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Garath

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Re: Whats your opinion on cheaty tactics?
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2012, 01:14:16 pm »

actually, what I would consider cheating is using dfhack or another program to change all stone layers to a flux stone and any metal veins you find to iron, as well as clusters, add in some coal and lignite, from top to bottom... that I'd consider cheating
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Quote from: Urist Imiknorris
Jam a door with its corpse and let all the goblins in. Hey, nobody said it had to be a weapon against your enemies.
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And then everyone melted.
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