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Author Topic: Visual novel thread  (Read 45525 times)

Sirus

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #210 on: August 02, 2016, 04:12:26 pm »

So I have apparently discovered the English VN market is crap.

Everything is either all-ages versions, or sketchy unofficial/conversion jobs.

Having said that, I did play through Katawa Shoujo again using an unofficial Android port, and it wasn't a terrible experience.
Please tell me it didn't have ads.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #211 on: August 02, 2016, 04:31:36 pm »

The When They Crys and Fata Morgana are the only two visual novels I'd really recommend unreservedly. It's cool that they're coming out on Steam.

I have been enjoying Root Double so far though, I may add that to the list if it sticks the landing.
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frostshotgg

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #212 on: August 02, 2016, 04:35:59 pm »

I feel obligated to mention that YU-NO is one of if not the single best translated visual novel. It's getting a remake release mid-November.
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Shakerag

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #213 on: August 04, 2016, 12:51:49 am »

I wish I had read the all-ages version of Fate/stay Night instead; having horrible sex scenes crammed in for no reason all over the place certainly did not enhance my reading experience.
I'd take 'em over the Muv-Luv ones any day of the week.


Please tell me it didn't have ads.
No, it did not.  However it was a little wonky with gallery unlocks and remembering previously read text.

Hawkfrost

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #214 on: August 04, 2016, 03:42:53 am »

I wish I had read the all-ages version of Fate/stay Night instead; having horrible sex scenes crammed in for no reason all over the place certainly did not enhance my reading experience.
I'd take 'em over the Muv-Luv ones any day of the week.

And yet I've seen people blowing up over "censorship" and "muh artistic vision" about both series.
In fact, I once saw someone posting how the cut version of Fate/stay Night "ruins" the VN because it "destroys context" and "character development" (paraphrased).


Look, if people want to look at porn, just admit you want to look at porn; don't try to pretend it's about maintaining some sort of artistic dignity.
They crammed that stuff in to tell copies to perverts in the first place, not because any of it actually fits the story. (In fact, it even causes a plot hole in Fate/stay Night.)
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #215 on: August 04, 2016, 05:04:58 am »

I am the boner my sword
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ToonyMan

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #216 on: August 04, 2016, 03:56:07 pm »

I feel obligated to mention that YU-NO is one of if not the single best translated visual novel. It's getting a remake release mid-November.
The epilogue spends too long establishing itself before rushing the ending. I didn't find it very satisfying.

On the other hand, the first like 40 hours are pretty good when it's an actual adventure game with divergences and puzzles. Pretty much each "route" had at least one good scene.
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Cruxador

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #217 on: August 05, 2016, 06:06:14 pm »

So I have apparently discovered the English VN market is crap.

Everything is either all-ages versions, or sketchy unofficial/conversion jobs.
EVNs often have uncensored versions, and there's always ways to restore VNs that were censored as part of a localization effort. Unofficial stuff isn't necessarily bad, and there's good options for lots of prominent VNs in that arena. You do have to be a bit net-savvy, but such is the price of following a niche medium.

I wish I had read the all-ages version of Fate/stay Night instead; having horrible sex scenes crammed in for no reason all over the place certainly did not enhance my reading experience.
I'd take 'em over the Muv-Luv ones any day of the week.

And yet I've seen people blowing up over "censorship" and "muh artistic vision" about both series.
In fact, I once saw someone posting how the cut version of Fate/stay Night "ruins" the VN because it "destroys context" and "character development" (paraphrased).


Look, if people want to look at porn, just admit you want to look at porn; don't try to pretend it's about maintaining some sort of artistic dignity.
They crammed that stuff in to tell copies to perverts in the first place, not because any of it actually fits the story. (In fact, it even causes a plot hole in Fate/stay Night.)
In general I kind of agree with the anti-censorship bent. Even if something's terrible, let me, the consumer, decide that it's terrible. The type of sex scene omission matters too. Like, I have no interest in reading "ah!" a dozen times and see the screen flash as squishy-sounding FX play, but the lead-up to the sex can be important to characterization or interesting in other ways, so although I don't mind fade to black, total omission of the scene is bad. In the end, I'd rather annoyedly click through too-long sex scenes to be sure I'm not missing out on something I'd actually want to read so I prefer uncensored.
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frostshotgg

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #218 on: August 05, 2016, 08:03:47 pm »

Yeah, at the end of the day I chose to read what I wanted to. If that includes bad sex scenes, I should have that option, rather than have someone tell me what I do and don't get to enjoy. In the specific case of Fate/stay night, Nasu is so bad at writing sex scenes that it's actually comical and very enjoyable. See: Tohsaka's anus.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #219 on: September 07, 2016, 10:29:26 pm »

Ace Attorney 6 is coming out tomorrow. I will be playing it.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #220 on: September 08, 2016, 08:16:11 am »

It is now out. Currently deleting everything else on my 3DS so I have space for it.
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Drakale

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #221 on: September 08, 2016, 09:05:27 am »

Oh yeah, I'll be all over that as soon as I get home. Hope Apollo and Wright get to cooperate on the same case at some point.
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Shakerag

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #222 on: September 08, 2016, 02:24:25 pm »

So I have apparently discovered the English VN market is crap.

Everything is either all-ages versions, or sketchy unofficial/conversion jobs.
EVNs often have uncensored versions, and there's always ways to restore VNs that were censored as part of a localization effort. Unofficial stuff isn't necessarily bad, and there's good options for lots of prominent VNs in that arena. You do have to be a bit net-savvy, but such is the price of following a niche medium.

I wish I had read the all-ages version of Fate/stay Night instead; having horrible sex scenes crammed in for no reason all over the place certainly did not enhance my reading experience.
I'd take 'em over the Muv-Luv ones any day of the week.

And yet I've seen people blowing up over "censorship" and "muh artistic vision" about both series.
In fact, I once saw someone posting how the cut version of Fate/stay Night "ruins" the VN because it "destroys context" and "character development" (paraphrased).


Look, if people want to look at porn, just admit you want to look at porn; don't try to pretend it's about maintaining some sort of artistic dignity.
They crammed that stuff in to tell copies to perverts in the first place, not because any of it actually fits the story. (In fact, it even causes a plot hole in Fate/stay Night.)
In general I kind of agree with the anti-censorship bent. Even if something's terrible, let me, the consumer, decide that it's terrible. The type of sex scene omission matters too. Like, I have no interest in reading "ah!" a dozen times and see the screen flash as squishy-sounding FX play, but the lead-up to the sex can be important to characterization or interesting in other ways, so although I don't mind fade to black, total omission of the scene is bad. In the end, I'd rather annoyedly click through too-long sex scenes to be sure I'm not missing out on something I'd actually want to read so I prefer uncensored.
Ahh, whoops.  I just now went back to read this and realized I omitted a crucial bit of info.  I meant the English Android VN market is crap.  The management would like to apologize. 

As to the other issue, I oppose censorship as a principle.  If the original creator put something in, then for fuck's sake leave it in and/or translate it to be as close to the original as possible.  I've all but given up on trying to watch cartoons brought over here from another country (the dub versions, at least) because we seem to mangle the fuck out of them.  Digimon was butchered.  Rockman EXE was heavily modified (or so I've heard).  LBX's first season was so eviscerated that the dub has *half* of the episodes that the original did. 

ventuswings

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #223 on: September 10, 2016, 04:07:05 pm »

Eh. I wouldn't mind introducing all age version as default, if there is option to toggle back the "original" version. Besides widening audience appeal, most sex scenes are absolutely unnecessary and harms story-telling in some cases. I know some companies would release all age product, only to later make 'upgraded 18+ edition' with random sex scenes thrown in  due to Consumer Outrag.... cough, Demand.

I'm probably biased since I prefer "visual novel" over "dating sim" though. Most of my favourite VN have been all age, such as Stein;Gate and Key games. Contrarily, I find VN with sex tends to veer toward formulaic moe love love nonsense...
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Cruxador

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Re: Visual novel thread
« Reply #224 on: September 10, 2016, 10:34:28 pm »

Ahh, whoops.  I just now went back to read this and realized I omitted a crucial bit of info.  I meant the English Android VN market is crap.  The management would like to apologize.
Ah, yeah. Can't argue with that. It seems like it shouldn't be too hard to just export your VN into an Android format, since most are made in Ren'Py anyway, which supports that, but I guess it's too much hassle for projects that aren't designed to work well in both.

Quote
As to the other issue, I oppose censorship as a principle.  If the original creator put something in, then for fuck's sake leave it in and/or translate it to be as close to the original as possible.  I've all but given up on trying to watch cartoons brought over here from another country (the dub versions, at least) because we seem to mangle the fuck out of them.  Digimon was butchered.  Rockman EXE was heavily modified (or so I've heard).  LBX's first season was so eviscerated that the dub has *half* of the episodes that the original did.
The argument that's come up here before is that often the sex scenes are added for reasons other than art in the first place, which is true. Personally, I prefer having extra stuff (which you can skip) than omitting stuff (and not knowing it was there). I can see the arguments for both sides, but I think that the best case would be if artists could just make what they want and what fits the story best without having to have sex or having to omit it according to the preference of their local market. But sex is far from the only thing where this is an issue, just the most prominent, and saying that artists should be uninfluenced by practical constraints us a utopian to the point of irrelevance anyway.
I'll also say that I'd rather have sex scenes than titillation and romance that completely dance around the subject of sex, which is more pandering, in my view, than an easily skippable shoehorned sex scene, and I much prefer something that doesn't fit when it's a small part of the package compared to when it creeps into the narrative but isn't an aspect of it which progresses reasonably.

Eh. I wouldn't mind introducing all age version as default, if there is option to toggle back the "original" version. Besides widening audience appeal
The thing is, it doesn't typically widen audience appeal. The VN audience in Japan is only a certain size, because it's a stigmatized hobby, and kids are going to find it weird regardless of the content. Combine that with the fact that personal computers for recreational use are much more limited in market penetration compared to the west, and there really wouldn't be a significant new base of potential buyers opened up for most games.

Quote
I'm probably biased since I prefer "visual novel" over "dating sim" though. Most of my favourite VN have been all age, such as Stein;Gate and Key games. Contrarily, I find VN with sex tends to veer toward formulaic moe love love nonsense...
The thing about those games without sexual content is that in order to succeed, they face a much steeper battle. They need something to set them apart, and must be high quality, or else they fail. VNs with sex are a much safer bet, and more experimental things do better in this large subset of the market. So you do get a lot of generic stuff, but you also see a lot more innovation. Of course, this perspective of mine seems to be a bit dated. It's been a while since Sengoku Rance, and even since Monstergirl Quest, and non-sexual content is doing better, not least because VNs are becoming popular in the more sex-averse west. I think things are changing, but for the time being a Japanese developer who wants to succeed still has a better chance with sex scenes.
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