Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas  (Read 2970 times)

Sutremaine

  • Bay Watcher
  • [ETHIC:ATROCITY: PERSONAL_MATTER]
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2012, 03:41:04 pm »

The wiki doesn't say when the punishments are decided and I can't remember. In .31 prison sentences would automatically be upgraded to beatings if there were no cages/restraints free, so if you activate dwarven justice after dwarves start breaking the rules you might end up with a bunch of beatings scheduled for jail-worthy offences. To be on the safe side, I'd lock your future captain of the guard in with the weakest weapon you have, so they use that instead of their fists should you end up with half the fortress being beaten. Last time I activated a CotG and ordered them to pick up a training weapon, they did all the beatings first.
Logged
I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Garath

  • Bay Watcher
  • Helping to deforest the world
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2012, 04:13:29 pm »

the crime has to be reported and there is a limited time to do that. If the CotG is busy eating, sleeping, drinking or on break, no reports are made and no action is taken. In a situation like this you should probably disable jobs for the CotG and give him a squad to work with
Logged
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris
Jam a door with its corpse and let all the goblins in. Hey, nobody said it had to be a weapon against your enemies.
Quote from: Frogwarrior
And then everyone melted.

greycat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2012, 05:45:56 pm »

Friends that have died, just said that a post ago

See, that's not enough information.  It is nearly a complete lack of information.  It's not even one dwarf's worth of thoughts, let alone a whole fort's worth.

Something like:

"I found 4 dwarves who were flashing the red arrow.  The first one is very unhappy; bad thoughts include losing a sibling, being caught in the rain, and long patrol duty.  The second one is merely unhappy; her only bad thought is loss of her husband, and she's got lots of admired-a-thing thoughts.  The third one...."

might have been more helpful.  Even then, it really just comes down to

Quote from: Garath
I don't think, in the time I've been touring this forum, I've seen any advice regarding tantrum spirals except for "sit tight and hold on" and "make sure they don't happen"

There is no lever you can pull that sprinkles happiness on your dwarves.  (Except for the mist generator of course.)  There's no quick fix.  You provide happy thoughts, and you avoid the unhappy ones.  That's really all there is.
Logged
Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz

Garath

  • Bay Watcher
  • Helping to deforest the world
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2012, 06:07:57 pm »

Friends that have died, just said that a post ago

See, that's not enough information.  It is nearly a complete lack of information.  It's not even one dwarf's worth of thoughts, let alone a whole fort's worth.

Something like:

"I found 4 dwarves who were flashing the red arrow.  The first one is very unhappy; bad thoughts include losing a sibling, being caught in the rain, and long patrol duty.  The second one is merely unhappy; her only bad thought is loss of her husband, and she's got lots of admired-a-thing thoughts.  The third one...."

might have been more helpful.  Even then, it really just comes down to

Quote from: Garath
I don't think, in the time I've been touring this forum, I've seen any advice regarding tantrum spirals except for "sit tight and hold on" and "make sure they don't happen"

There is no lever you can pull that sprinkles happiness on your dwarves.  (Except for the mist generator of course.)  There's no quick fix.  You provide happy thoughts, and you avoid the unhappy ones.  That's really all there is.

yeah, even the restraint/prison thing will not stop a fully developed tantrum spiral, no lever with sprinkles and happiness (wonder if you missed that post though)

Small note. Unless you assume someone is completely new, it might be polite to accept that "everyone was happy, some people died." is a reasonable explanation. When asked to check, the answer "it was the deaths" should be good enough that the player doesn't have to write out all the thoughts of the dwarfs in question. Don't you think?
Logged
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris
Jam a door with its corpse and let all the goblins in. Hey, nobody said it had to be a weapon against your enemies.
Quote from: Frogwarrior
And then everyone melted.

greycat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2012, 06:17:07 pm »

If I were the one trying to make the dwarves happy, "a few of them had friends die" is not where I would stop the investigation.

Actually it would be more instructive to look at the others -- the ones who aren't (yet) flashing the red arrow.  If we write off the flashing-reds as dead dwarves walking, then we're looking at the next iteration in the cycle to see if we can prevent them from getting to the flashing-red point.  I'd be quite concerned about whether the ones who have not lost relatives are "ecstatic" or "quite content" or whatever.
Logged
Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz

dexxy

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2012, 07:42:04 pm »

You could make some extra rooms, with a dining room, some bedrooms, food and booze stockpiles, clothes stockpiles. Then put some dwarfs who aren't all angry in there, and lock the doors so they can't get out and other dwarfs can't get in. Essentially start a new fort inside your old fort with some carefully chosen happy dwarfs.

Then the dwarfs in the old fort can flip out and attack each other, and hopefully it won't affect the new fort. Once things "die down" in the old fort, you can open the new fort and let the happy dwarfs out to clean up the mess.
Logged

Garath

  • Bay Watcher
  • Helping to deforest the world
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2012, 07:57:25 pm »

you'd need to do a rather carefull relation examination to make that viable
Logged
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris
Jam a door with its corpse and let all the goblins in. Hey, nobody said it had to be a weapon against your enemies.
Quote from: Frogwarrior
And then everyone melted.

slink

  • Bay Watcher
  • Crazy Cat Dwarf
    • View Profile
    • Slink's Burrow Online
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2012, 08:53:52 pm »

A waterfall that everyone is forced to walk through is the most amazing mood boost that I have ever seen.  It is not easy to arrange for on the spur of the moment, though.
Logged
There is only one cat, and all cats are that cat.
Almost losing is sometimes fun.

Panando

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2012, 09:47:41 pm »

Solitary confinement is pretty useful for upset dwarves. The problem really, is setting it up. But if you have individual furnished bedrooms, you could for example remove all meeting zones so they go back to their individual bedrooms and chill out, and lock in the tantrumers (try to dump some food/booze into their room from above). Tantrum spirals kind of operate like nuclear meltdown, the dwarves need to be packed in nice and close in order to trigger a good chain reaction (like one dwarf hits another dwarf, the struck dwarf gets an unhappy thought about being struck etc).
Logged
Punch through a multi-z aquifer in under 5 minutes, video walkthrough. I post as /u/BlakeMW on reddit.

Garath

  • Bay Watcher
  • Helping to deforest the world
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2012, 03:56:27 am »

A waterfall that everyone is forced to walk through is the most amazing mood boost that I have ever seen.  It is not easy to arrange for on the spur of the moment, though.

OP has a waterfall
Logged
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris
Jam a door with its corpse and let all the goblins in. Hey, nobody said it had to be a weapon against your enemies.
Quote from: Frogwarrior
And then everyone melted.

Triaxx2

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2012, 07:45:33 am »

An interesting thought on the clan forts. With the advent of Mine carts, there doesn't need to be any interaction between the various forts.
Logged

slink

  • Bay Watcher
  • Crazy Cat Dwarf
    • View Profile
    • Slink's Burrow Online
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2012, 08:20:31 am »

A waterfall that everyone is forced to walk through is the most amazing mood boost that I have ever seen.  It is not easy to arrange for on the spur of the moment, though.

OP has a waterfall
But not necessarily one that everyone is forced to walk through.
Logged
There is only one cat, and all cats are that cat.
Almost losing is sometimes fun.

greycat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2012, 08:24:09 am »

Solitary confinement is pretty useful for upset dwarves. The problem really, is setting it up.

Getting a dwarf into a room isn't hard -- make a lever, profile it so that only one specific dwarf can pull it, and then ask for it to be pulled.  It doesn't even have to be connected to anything.

The problem with this is that once the dwarf is in solitary, he won't be able to get happy thoughts from your waterfall, or from admiring stuff outside his room, or from working, or from eating in your legendary dining hall, etc.  (Granted, his room may also qualify as a legendary dining hall....)  So it's not so much a rehabilitation chamber as a "don't let him crack any more skulls" cell.
Logged
Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz

Triaxx2

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2012, 05:36:15 pm »

Which is why these rooms should always be built in such a manner as to ensure that the dwarf can do those things. If the dining room is legendary, then having a small section of the room protruding into it to let the dwarf eat in, and windows through which to admire the waterfall.

Or you could just ensure that the isolation room is legendary with masterwork everything. Masterwork chairs, tables, beds, windows. Da woiks.
Logged

greycat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: losing my fortress to a tantrum spiral... any ideas
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2012, 06:32:13 pm »

Happy thoughts from a waterfall aren't from looking at it.  They're from walking through the mist.  If a dwarf is on the dry side of a window, he might get a happy thought from admiring the window, but not anything on the other side of it.
Logged
Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz
Pages: 1 [2] 3