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[firelord84]

  Hi all,
  I feel like I'm finally getting a handle on this DF thing. After 4 non-starter fortresses, I am working on what I consider to be my first successful fortress.  I am currently 9 years in (year 16, early start) and I have survived 4 invasions and many ambushes, including one by a group of kobolds (unexpected).  My defenses are such that I am no longer losing military dwarves to invasions, only those dwarves that are too far away from my drawbridges at the time of the invasion to make it back inside.  My fortress is double ringed with walls. like so:
            mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
            mxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxm
            mx                                           xm
            mx                                           xm
            mxr                                         rxm             x = 2-tile wall with Fortifications on top of outer-most tile
            mx                                           xm             m = moat filled with water from river
            mxxx                   e                   xxxssss        s = stream                                   
            bb x                                       rx bbb           b = drawbridge (raising in appropriate direction) 
            mxbx                                       xbxss            e = ramp down to my fortress and the "hall o' traps" as a third line of defense
            mx xr                                       x xss            r = ramp to the battlements
            mx x                                        x xss
            mx x      r                      r          x xss
            mx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxbxxxxxxxxxxxxx xss
            mx   r                                  r      xss
            mxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxss
            mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmss

        I've found the moat is purely decorative, since there's really no harm in letting invading forces up the wall.  I did make a mistake in channeling a stagnant pool into the moat..... yay stagnant water plague.  Now my stream and EVERYTHING else, including my well deep beneath the surface, is stagnant.  Luckily I have lots of alcohol and lots of soap...

         My questions:  Now that I've established a decent fortress (I'm now a barony), I feel like I'm close to breaking into the first cavern.  I'm very very worried about this.  I've sunk a lot of time into this fortress.  My current stats:

         Total Citizenry:  219
         Total Army:         29
         My goal at this time is 15 melee and 20 crossbows.

         There are 6 Lords mixed into that number, 4 melee and 2 crossbow.

         Everyone is equipped in steel armor (mail, beastplate, helm, gauntlets, greaves, high boots, shield) and steel weapons (aside from silver hammers and multi-meteled crossbows, and goblinite copper bolts).

         I'm also building floors in all my hallways to prevent spore tree growth.  I have no idea what cave swallows or olm men are like.  Does this seem prepared sufficiently?  I do plan to create similar fortifications in the cavern should its morphology allow for it.

         Thanks!

          More:

            I'm beginning to get that "Conquer the World!" feeling.  Is there any way to influence events outside my embark?  Not being able to move beyond my little embark square and knowing there's so much more world out there is beginning to chafe.  I'm really itching to crush the nearest goblin civ.

[Rafe]

        I've found the moat is purely decorative, since there's really no harm in letting invading forces up the wall.  I did make a mistake in channeling a stagnant pool into the moat..... yay stagnant water plague. 

So if you had channeled a flowing brook would you not have stagnant water? Wouldn't you need an inlet and outlet for the water otherwise once it's pressurized from the moving body it would stay stationary ?

[firelord84]

  It's my experience that as long as it's touching flowing water it won't go stagnant.  However, as soon as stagnant water comes into contact with any water, flowing or not, it will be stagnant.  So that stagnant pool infected my entire stream, including upstream from the breach.

[weenog]

        I've found the moat is purely decorative, since there's really no harm in letting invading forces up the wall.  I did make a mistake in channeling a stagnant pool into the moat..... yay stagnant water plague. 

So if you had channeled a flowing brook would you not have stagnant water? Wouldn't you need an inlet and outlet for the water otherwise once it's pressurized from the moving body it would stay stationary ?

He's just using an old version.  Water being stagnant has nothing to do with what the word "stagnant" actually means, and until recently (I want to say 0.34.10, but not sure) stagnation was both infectious and permanent.

If you upgrade to the latest version, fresh water will kill stagnant water instead of the other way around.  You can clean already stagnant water by channelling out a small loop and pumping the stagnant water source around the loop and back into itself (note: do not pump directly into stagnant water, you need a tile of clean water to kill the stagnant water... pump into an empty tile that spills back into the water source).

[firelord84]

  Yes, I believe I am on 34.07. 

[firelord84]

Anyone have any input about the caverns?

 By the way, I used caged stripped goblins as training fodder, and I just had an Axe Lord beat a goblin over the head with his crutch until dead.  Any game in which this is possible is ok in my book.  Oh, and while his buddy the Spearmaster decided to take a nap a couple tiles away.

[toomanysecrets]

Caverns shouldn't scare you so much. But, once you breach you want to seal it up again. Youll still have permanent spore growth as if it were wide open even if you close it up. If you think you want to send cats/military into the cavern, make a drawbridge that can seal the cavern up at a moment's notice. Its wise to leave a 10-15 square long hallway for traps that leads to your breach point and your main fortress stairs. Critters can get through if youre not careful. Luckily, if a forgotten beast shows up in the cavern it will be announced so you have time to close up.

[firelord84]

  Yeah, I know.  What I'm really worried about is FB's made of fire or some equally awkward material.  I don't really want to have an impossible-to-kill FB wandering around down there.

[Azated]

  Yeah, I know.  What I'm really worried about is FB's made of fire or some equally awkward material.  I don't really want to have an impossible-to-kill FB wandering around down there.

A floor dropped on the head is usually a sure-fire way to kill everything. If that doesn't work, magma is the obvious next choice. Preferably in quantities that some would call 'overkill', but I just call joyful. The more the merrier, as they say!

[firelord84]

Hmm... I'm getting visions of this setup:

     wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww         w = cavern wall
        x                   x                              x = constructed wall
        x                   x                              b = drawbridge
        b         p        b                              p = single constructed support pillar with a free-hanging floor above it
        x                   x
        x                   x
      wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

       That way when the forgotten beast enters the death zone, they will go after the support being building destroyers, and drop the floor on themselves.  Sound like a plan?

[dexxy]

         My questions:  Now that I've established a decent fortress (I'm now a barony), I feel like I'm close to breaking into the first cavern.  I'm very very worried about this.  I've sunk a lot of time into this fortress.  My current stats:

         Total Citizenry:  219
         Total Army:         29
         My goal at this time is 15 melee and 20 crossbows.

         There are 6 Lords mixed into that number, 4 melee and 2 crossbow.

         Everyone is equipped in steel armor (mail, beastplate, helm, gauntlets, greaves, high boots, shield) and steel weapons (aside from silver hammers and multi-meteled crossbows, and goblinite copper bolts).

I think you should make your army bigger. For example, I have 186 dwarfs, and 94 of them are in the army.

You only need a reasonably small number of dwarfs to do the necessary jobs, such as cooking, brewing, leatherworking, butchering, tanning, clothesmaking, weaving, threshing, farming, mining, smelting, forging, etc.

Let's say you assign 80 dwarfs to do all the jobs in your fort. That would leave maybe 100 dwarfs who could be in the army. They may as well be in the army as idling.

Haulers can be put in a squad which is always inactive. That way you can give them crossbows, with which they will shoot invaders. You can also give them some armor, for example a helmet might stop them being killed.

[Garath]

Hmm... I'm getting visions of this setup:

     wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww         w = cavern wall
        x                   x                              x = constructed wall
        x                   x                              b = drawbridge
        b         p        b                              p = single constructed support pillar with a free-hanging floor above it
        x                   x
        x                   x
      wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

       That way when the forgotten beast enters the death zone, they will go after the support being building destroyers, and drop the floor on themselves.  Sound like a plan?

no

building destroyers pass some buildings without destroying them, supports being one of them (unless they are wooden and the creature has building destroyer 2 or something? I forgot, sorry Q).

A popular way is to trap a room with upright spikes and put an artifact in there. Building destroyers can't destroy artifacts and will spend an eternity trying. Pull the lever, kill the beast. Fire FB will die fast, but die with a blast.

My main comment on your defences (that I can see) is a lack of airlocks