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[Gunner-Chan]

Also, for most of the characters that isn't there without an imported save (95% of them) you get a "basically the same character" stand in and the game carrys on pretty much the same. For example on grunt's mission you get generic Krogan #42. Most of the missions will play out exactly the same, except that you'll do worse as you've said.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know of at least one exception to this, if Wrex is alive and you attempt to get salarian aid you'll lose all of the Krogan assets Wrex would of given you, but if you destroyed the data, Mordin is alive but Wrex is dead and you got Wreave instead then you can get the (Very marginally weaker) krogan, salarian aid and 30 extra points from Mordin going to work on the catalyst. I know that's at least one example that to game the system and get as much war assets as possible you need an old character dead.

[scriver]

Star Trek definitely goes under "space opera" in my book

What? ...Why? ...How?



...Who?

...Because it's exactly like Star Wars (Except Star Trek aliens is siller) mixed with a bad adventure show. The only thing that doesn't fit into the definition above is that it isn't an "epic". At least not the series, don't know about the movies as I've only seen the newest one (which, by the way, if you had exchanged the differents terms and sci-fi babble would be exactly like a Star Wars movie.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Because I find discussing video games interesting and have a lot of free time on my hands at the moment?

I wasn't aware you're only allowed to talk about a game if you're a fanboy? :S Is this really something you have to ask about, or are you just trying to tell me to shut up without actually coming out and saying it? I mean have you ever heard of something called a critic? They have them in pretty much every artistic medium. They aren't called "praisics." Identifying the problems with a specific piece of work not only helps greatly in understanding it, but also in understanding the medium as a whole. It's also generally welcome by artists because it helps them perfect their craft. Art invites criticism? Is this really such a foreign concept to you, or are you just mad because I don't share your love for the games?

I guess if I had to nail it down I'd say I find it interesting deconstructing the series with regards to how the promise and premise of the original game dwindled and died over the course of the series.

Actually, I'm just confused by it. If I had a similarly high level of dislike for a game I would usually ignore it, not spend pages and pages on multiple topics writing out extensive and absolute criticisms of it. I just don't see how you can be so active regarding a work of media you clearly have an extremely low opinion of.

[fenrif]

...Because it's exactly like Star Wars (Except Star Trek aliens is siller) mixed with a bad adventure show. The only thing that doesn't fit into the definition above is that it isn't an "epic". At least not the series, don't know about the movies as I've only seen the newest one (which, by the way, if you had exchanged the differents terms and sci-fi babble would be exactly like a Star Wars movie.

The guy who did that RedLetterMedia style breakdown of the ME3 ending explained it far better than I will now attempt to, but here goes: Shows like Star Trek are all about the technology, the science part of science fiction. Nearly every problem they encounter is solved by liberal application of technobabble, and the few that aren't are generally solved by diplomacy. Obviously this varies from series to series, but it generally holds true for the entire franchise (except the TNG films which may aswell be an entirely seperate universe for how consistent they are with the show). The shows in general are driven as much by the technology than as by anything else. Things like the warp drive, phasers, replicators, holodecks, etc. They're all fantasy creations but the writers spend a large amount of time educating the viewer on how they work, what their limitations are, how they are powered, etc. Even data's positronic brain is somethign that is constantly explained and referenced to the viewer.

Constrast this with Star Wars, where the technology is just a tool that isn't ever really explained. Nowhere in the movies does anyone talk about what makes C-3PO tick, or how a lightsaber knows when to stop, or what hyperdrive really is. It's all just plot contrivences to move the narrative from point A to point B. The technology in Star Wars is never really the focus of the plot. The plot is more concerned with galactic civil war, the force, character arcs and relationships, good versus evil, etc. Not to say that a space opera can't dwell on technology, or that a "talky techy" show can't dwell on big narrative elements, but generally you'll find they stick to their strengths.

And that's just one aspect of it. In Star Trek, generally if any sort of obstacle rears it's head the characters first reaction is to discuss it. Bones and Spock argue their points and then Kirk weighs in and decides, Picard calls a meeting in the boardroom and the resident experts weigh in, Janeway asks Tuvok and 7of9 for guidance (though I think a lot of the reason people have a problem with Janeway is she often just does whatever she wants regardless of what her command staff says). In Star Wars the characters very rarely stop and take a minute to sit and work out a plan. Obviously they have the breifing scenes before the death star run, but even then it's more of the characters being told what to do by some random guy we've previously in any scene.

Obviously some of these differences stem from the different mediums, Star Trek is a TV show, where generally they have an hour to solve one or two problems, and limited budgets for huge action sequences... Which is why you find Talky techy franchises more at home on TV. ME1 was so original because Talky Techy games are kind of rare, which is why it's so disheartening to see them play fast and loose with things like what the underlying technology is or does.

Also the recent Star Trek film is definatly far removed from the TV series, but then again it's supposed to be. It's a franchise reboot. The whole idea is that they don't want to make Talky Techy slow paced things starring old guys who discuss proton photon conduits and plasma coils. Though I don't think it's really a space opera either... But it's been a while since I've seen it so I can't cite any specific reasons.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know of at least one exception to this, if Wrex is alive and you attempt to get salarian aid you'll lose all of the Krogan assets Wrex would of given you, but if you destroyed the data, Mordin is alive but Wrex is dead and you got Wreave instead then you can get the (Very marginally weaker) krogan, salarian aid and 30 extra points from Mordin going to work on the catalyst. I know that's at least one example that to game the system and get as much war assets as possible you need an old character dead.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 I'm sure I read somewhere that you can get both Wrex and Moradin (including both salarian and krogan forces) if you leave them both alive, saved the council in the first game, and then save the salarian counciler from assassination? Could be wrong though, and I CBA researching it to check.

[Darkmere]

Spoiler: Krogan war assets, as I remember them (click to show/hide)

There are... I think three salarian fleets regarding the major decisions in the series. Kirrahe pledges the Special Tasks Group to you, regardless of political climate, if he survived Virmire.

The Salarian councilor pledges a fleet to you, if you saved the Destiny Ascension and Thane or Kirrahe thwart Kai Leng's assassination. (Kirrahe I'm not sure about, I always had Thane). This is not the same fleet that the Dalatrass offers for sabotaging the cure.

If Wrex is alive, he knows the outcome of the cure mission. Sabotaging it costs you krogan support regardless. Curing the genophage costs you Mordin/Wiks regardless. If Wrex is dead, Wreav is in charge. Wreav does not know the sabotage occurred, and this is where the most options come in. If Mordin is alive and Wreav is in charge, you can convince Mordin that the krogan under Wreav are too dangerous. Mordin will fake his own death, Wreav still gives you krogan support, the dalatrass pledges you a fleet, and Mordin secretly works on the Crucible. If Mordin is dead, Wiks must be killed to sabotage the cure, and you still get krogan and salarian support.

If Wrex lives, it's his 300+ point krogan support or one 150-point salarian fleet. Wreav doesn't have the unified krogan backing him, so his krogan support is something like 175 or less, and you don't get Wrex's extra 25 points.

I think the max war assets possible went something like: Wrex is dead, cure is saved, Eve lives, rachni queen is saved twice, grunt lives, mordin lives, cure is postponed, Thane saves the councilor. All that yields something like 25-50 more points, which was nowhere near enough to make me play through it all again to kill Wrex and backstab Eve.

Shameless plug: I'd consider Babylon 5 to be a space opera, but most of the (human-accessible) technology functions in a realistic and believable way. The station was built by humans, who are relative newcomers, so gravity is simulated by spinning the station. Alien sectors spin more slowly or not at all, crew quarters on human ships are placed in spinning sections, etc. Fighter ships for most species don't have fancy inertial dampeners or whatever. The tech isn't thrown in your face, but major elements hold up, as long as they aren't from Precursor races (sufficiently advanced, for all intents and purposes). Hyperspace works a certain way, and some episodes deal with those limitations specifically, as Star Trek would have. However...

The plots are mostly political or character-driven, except points in later seasons where there was a major conflict to be shown. The series arc is epic in scope ("Where are we going, as a galaxy?" essentially), and mostly follows space opera conventions.

I guess what I wanted to say is that a work can have elements of both, though few bother trying. Also B5 was greatly underrated.

[Domenique]

Again, I'd refer you to FF13....

You're right there, as FF13's cutscenes are better, maybe I'm a little too much of a WRPGer . But my opinion on ME series as a whole remains the same, it's something that I hadn't experienced yet in a wRPG and something that I really liked, though not solely for that. Sadly there aren't a lot of people in the industry who are truly good at writing, mainly because the consumers don't mind bad writing much most of the time (most people I know prefer FO3 to FNV, even though it's obvious that FNV's writing was much better).

On the cutscene side, yes, it's not a good thing that they are starting to become the most used narrative tool, but on the other hand there are not many good ways to deliver a story well besides it that the consumers would like (that I know of). The gaming will evolve based mostly on what the general public likes, I don't think that's good, but it's something we will have to get used to.

[Djohaal]

I'd love if they made the extra ending the official ending. After three games in the series for nothing it'd make most fanboys curl in fetal position for a week 

[Rakonas]

I kind of like the rejection ending, but I'm still going with my own ending

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Crucible actually is a giant weapon, and there's no star child. The Alliance fleet defends it and once Shepard activates it, it's used to take out reapers one by one. Since war readiness is at maximum, there's a hard fought war using the crucible where sometime around when Shepard is dying of old age the last reapers are defeated, with phenomenal cost to the galaxy. What the player did actually matters in the grand scheme of things, like Wrex leading the genophage-cured krogan resulting in less deaths, same with the geth and quarians working together without the magical incentive of them both being synthetic, etc.