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[BlackFlyme]

The entire UI gets fucked royally whenever there's a Host Migration now. Just random nonsensical shit up on my screen once it returns me to the level.

This is really getting annoying.

[frostshotgg]

It's the reward system. You're rewarded between poorly and moderately for completing a mission, and between not at all and barely for anything else. This naturally gives way to just rushing to the end as fast as possible because that's the only way you get any sort of reward. If the game forced you to slow down and take in the scenery, that would just feel shitty as hell because you're just being kept away from the one positive feedback in the skinner box. If there was any reward at all just for handling enemies being forced to stop and kill them wouldn't feel that bad.

When I played back when the void still existed, Sabotage missions were the only ones I actually enjoyed running. I ran endless msisions because those were the only ones that gave decent rewards most of the time, but Sabs engaged me as a player to do more than just run to the end, kill a dude, done, if I wanted to, and it rewarded me fairly for doing so.

[nenjin]

I'd run Survival primarily because, given enough time, the game finally scaled to where you were at and then beyond. 50+ minutes on high level infested missions is just wall to wall assholes to kill and its glorious, especially for me. Then you go up another level threshold and suddenly the damage is very very real and you gotta play a lot tighter. Up another level threshold and you're in one shot territory.

Yet even that was underpinned by 40 minutes of trivial boredom. And I ran so much Apollodorus to grind out XP that I started getting sick even at the thought of doing survival.

But I don't think I agree about being rewarded better resulting in less obsession with speed running. People speed run because they enjoy the rush and the game is built for it. I think optimizing the grind is an important but maybe secondary part of it. So giving out chunkier rewards would just result in people getting more rewarded for the same behavior. To me it's just a function of the game handling and the optimal enemy bullet sponginess vs. their numbers to produce the right conditions for gotta go fast. When a blurt from your best gun can kill 1, 5, even 10 guys at a time and that's what the game builds itself around, that's what the meta becomes, is running around doing that as fast as possible. And when you know most of those enemies aren't going to pile up at your back and threaten you, or will spawn endlessly no matter how many you kill, there's not much motivation to spend more time with them than you need to unless the mission mandates it. I'm not a speed runner in games by nature, it's just not my style. Yet even I gotta go fast in WF, because it just feels right and because most of the time there's little point to doing otherwise.

That said I remember back when my friends and I were scrubs around Update 10 maybe? and doing high level voids we weren't ready for, we'd all be hunkered down in cover together trying to snap off shots and not get our faces taken off. Powers, energy? Useless at that level of difficulty. And it was actually a little fun. I think if a) levels were smaller b) the average enemy was way tougher and c) there were fewer of them you might get slower pacing out of the game. But WF is pretty much known at this point for its fuck off yuge tilesets and dozens and dozens of enemies spawning at a time or being lined up for you to knock over. To really change that to produce slower pacing feels pretty impossible at this point.

[Flying Dice]

Actually I could sorta buy them going that route with the Operator stuff, getting to the point where you have Operator-only (or forced split) missions. The mechanic feels really wonky as it stands, but it's a possibility. Another would be point-capped missions where you could only have a certain value worth of mods equipped on your gear.

Honestly the real problem is that the game doesn't scale well. The way armor works means that for high-level content you have to orient entirely around removing or ignoring armor (while other enemy types are still basically just trash to a properly modded weapon). The only real difficulty comes from mobs eventually getting to one-shot range, and that's... well, it's one type of challenge. But it's a bullet hell sort of challenge where the only way the player can lose is if the game floods them with too many threats to process or they make a mechanical error. WF would be well-served by having an armor revamp in Damage 3.0 (which could allow for high-end content to be balanced differently), and from more "quality" type enemies who are just plain bastards to kill in a way that isn't nullified by 4x Corrosive Proj and doesn't take the form of constant teleporting and one-shot attacks.

That's where I hope they're going with the Stalker plotline, eventually fighting Warframe-type opponents outside the Conclave that are as agile and dangerous as players (or at least something resembling that). Y'know, instead of Stalker and his fanboys who just teleport in and halfheartedly dash around until they get gibbed or run away.

[Insanegame27]

For this reason I like the rail spectres. Some are ermagerd-stoopid easy and others are ermagers-stooped hard, but many of them feel just right. Imagine facing three or four player-difficulty spectres at once to clear a room before moving to the next room and facing 6 harder ones.


Also a peeve of mine in this game: Sniping. Very very few tilesets are optimal for sniping in WF. Yes, you have got some on Earth and Mars and whenever you're planetside, but even then a better effect could have been gained from SMGing across the map (or have I just Twin Grakata'd wrong?)

[miauw62]

Honestly I wish the level range in Kuva Fortress was something like 50-70 instead of the 30-40 it is right now. That's one of the big problems in WF right now, I feel, there's a lack of rewardingly repeatable high-level content (even if high levels aren't *super* engaging, the armor bullet sponge thing isn't too bad until you get to 70+, i feel). You just get one sortie each day and the bugged-ass raids and that's it.

[Aklyon]

Well, outside of endless things like hieracon, the 'high level enemies' right now is lv40 according to the starchart. Considering what they were described as (and what you have to have completed to get access to it in the first place!) I'd be perfectly fine with the kuva fortress being 50+, since like miauw said, the only other high-level things are the two raids (one mostly working that I've finished once, one broken as fuck and fixed every other update or so), and one sortie which probably doesn't give you a riven mod.

[nenjin]

New mouse, so I finally got through the War Within.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So it's kinda cool the operator can walk around now but....does anyone feel like the powers are mostly useless? The void step is certainly cool and useful for stealth but other than that....I can't really see a use for anything else they do. Your Void Energy is piddly in duration if you mix any of the powers together, the damage is non-existent, the operate goes down in seconds, your WF takes damage and is vulnerable if the Operator hits 0 hp....just seems like a side feature. At least the void abilities from the last update you can use and they do something significant. About the only regularly useful thing is the beam resetting Sentient's resistances.

This just seems like mechanics for the sake of making missions require you to use your Operator form. Kinda mixed on it.

Aaannndddd they updated Bladestorm. Had to happen. I'm kinda sad but I knew BS was too good for clearing trash. Now you essentially have to aim it, and you can choose when to activate it, so in some ways it's more useful. But the couple of seconds you're mousing around marking targets can definitely get you killed in higher level gameplay.

Just wondering if anyone else's Press 4 to win skills are going to get the nerf hammer.

[Flying Dice]

Eh, they left his real high-end clearing tool pretty much untouched though. The Bladestorm nerf just makes him less optimal for farming runs.

[Aklyon]

New mouse, so I finally got through the War Within.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So it's kinda cool the operator can walk around now but....does anyone feel like the powers are mostly useless? The void step is certainly cool and useful for stealth but other than that....I can't really see a use for anything else they do. Your Void Energy is piddly in duration if you mix any of the powers together, the damage is non-existent, the operate goes down in seconds, your WF takes damage and is vulnerable if the Operator hits 0 hp....just seems like a side feature. At least the void abilities from the last update you can use and they do something significant. About the only regularly useful thing is the beam resetting Sentient's resistances.

This just seems like mechanics for the sake of making missions require you to use your Operator form. Kinda mixed on it.

Aaannndddd they updated Bladestorm. Had to happen. I'm kinda sad but I knew BS was too good for clearing trash. Now you essentially have to aim it, and you can choose when to activate it, so in some ways it's more useful. But the couple of seconds you're mousing around marking targets can definitely get you killed in higher level gameplay.

Just wondering if anyone else's Press 4 to win skills are going to get the nerf hammer.

They've given Excal a better ult and put his old one on 3, reworked saryn, reworked bladestorm, redid mag & volt for some reason, tweaked hysteria. The answer is eventually.

[nenjin]

Eh, they left his real high-end clearing tool pretty much untouched though. The Bladestorm nerf just makes him less optimal for farming runs.

If you're talking about SS, it's actually a buff other than the duration nerf. Being able to use it without stopping is great.

[miauw62]

New mouse, so I finally got through the War Within.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So it's kinda cool the operator can walk around now but....does anyone feel like the powers are mostly useless? The void step is certainly cool and useful for stealth but other than that....I can't really see a use for anything else they do. Your Void Energy is piddly in duration if you mix any of the powers together, the damage is non-existent, the operate goes down in seconds, your WF takes damage and is vulnerable if the Operator hits 0 hp....just seems like a side feature. At least the void abilities from the last update you can use and they do something significant. About the only regularly useful thing is the beam resetting Sentient's resistances.

This just seems like mechanics for the sake of making missions require you to use your Operator form. Kinda mixed on it.

Aaannndddd they updated Bladestorm. Had to happen. I'm kinda sad but I knew BS was too good for clearing trash. Now you essentially have to aim it, and you can choose when to activate it, so in some ways it's more useful. But the couple of seconds you're mousing around marking targets can definitely get you killed in higher level gameplay.

Just wondering if anyone else's Press 4 to win skills are going to get the nerf hammer.

They've given Excal a better ult and put his old one on 3, reworked saryn, reworked bladestorm, redid mag & volt for some reason, tweaked hysteria. The answer is eventually.

On the other hand, Banshee got skipped for Prime twice, so...

[Flying Dice]

Eh, they left his real high-end clearing tool pretty much untouched though. The Bladestorm nerf just makes him less optimal for farming runs.

If you're talking about SS, it's actually a buff other than the duration nerf. Being able to use it without stopping is great.

Nah, Teleport. Covert Lethality Fatal Teleport instakill spam still works just as well as ever (save for the usual exceptions that can't be finisher'd), and the SS QoL buff is just gravy.

[Aklyon]

New mouse, so I finally got through the War Within.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So it's kinda cool the operator can walk around now but....does anyone feel like the powers are mostly useless? The void step is certainly cool and useful for stealth but other than that....I can't really see a use for anything else they do. Your Void Energy is piddly in duration if you mix any of the powers together, the damage is non-existent, the operate goes down in seconds, your WF takes damage and is vulnerable if the Operator hits 0 hp....just seems like a side feature. At least the void abilities from the last update you can use and they do something significant. About the only regularly useful thing is the beam resetting Sentient's resistances.

This just seems like mechanics for the sake of making missions require you to use your Operator form. Kinda mixed on it.

Aaannndddd they updated Bladestorm. Had to happen. I'm kinda sad but I knew BS was too good for clearing trash. Now you essentially have to aim it, and you can choose when to activate it, so in some ways it's more useful. But the couple of seconds you're mousing around marking targets can definitely get you killed in higher level gameplay.

Just wondering if anyone else's Press 4 to win skills are going to get the nerf hammer.

They've given Excal a better ult and put his old one on 3, reworked saryn, reworked bladestorm, redid mag & volt for some reason, tweaked hysteria. The answer is eventually.

On the other hand, Banshee got skipped for Prime twice, so...

Valkyr prime is the one I'd wanted, tho

[Flying Dice]

Kind of annoying how they're not giving Valkyr Prime different abilities, though, considering that Valkyr's current state is supposed to be a direct result of Salad V's experiments.