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[IndigoFenix]

Well you could, When cave-adaption hits 0 BAM stone. Altho does non controlled creatures suffer Cave Adaption?

I'm speaking for Balrogs of course, altho. Would a demon turn to stone? Might work for trolls if you make them a underground civ or wandering critter

But underground critters have a tendancy to try and leave through the surface...

I don't think Balrogs turn to stone in the sun at all; they're quite too powerful for that.

Also, does cave adaptation ever go down? Besides that, there's the issue that all these creatures will be born/spawned with a cave adaptation value of zero, which would ruin them all. Trolls would show up at your doorstep turned to stone, etc.

It just wouldn't work.

Also, I'm currently working on a Sindarin language file BTW.

If you use the REQUIRED tag (which is the only way I've actually seen COUNTER_TRIGGERs used) and a syndrome that activates at 0 and has no maximum value, the Cave Adaptation syndrome will be active whenever the creature is actually in the cave, regardless of its value, and shut off the moment they go outside.  So what you could do is make the creature non-viable by default, and then give them an additional cave adaptation-linked syndrome that makes them able to survive.

Like (for instance) you could make the default creature a statue with no brain, then give them a cave-adaptation syndrome that turns them into a viable form whenever they're in caves.  Leave the cave, and they'll revert to stone and die.  As long as they spawn in a cave, they should be fine until they go outside.  (They'll need a few frames to apply the syndrome in the first place, but I'm pretty sure brainlessness doesn't kill instantly, it just suffocates the creature.)  Alternatively, if the 'X has transformed into an Orc' messages are a bother, you could make them aquatic and immobile on land and make the underground give them NOBREATHE.  Or just make them without lungs.

None of this will be affected by day/night cycles though...unless...really weird idea but...if you use the monthly COUNTER_TRIGGER as a time-setter and make the syndrome go on and off each day... (set to Adventure Mode time, since days are pretty much immaterial in Fortress).  They won't be smart about it though, and that means you can kill an entire Orcish bandit group just by walking into their camp during the day   I guess they should just be underground and forget the whole day-night thing.

And yes, non-controlled creatures do have Cave Adaptation, even in Adventure Mode.  I've tested it.  They also seem to spawn with a random value of cave adaptation when you find them in Adventure Mode, although that would be immaterial with this method.

[Trapezohedron]

Well you could, When cave-adaption hits 0 BAM stone. Altho does non controlled creatures suffer Cave Adaption?

I'm speaking for Balrogs of course, altho. Would a demon turn to stone? Might work for trolls if you make them a underground civ or wandering critter

But underground critters have a tendancy to try and leave through the surface...

I don't think Balrogs turn to stone in the sun at all; they're quite too powerful for that.

Also, does cave adaptation ever go down? Besides that, there's the issue that all these creatures will be born/spawned with a cave adaptation value of zero, which would ruin them all. Trolls would show up at your doorstep turned to stone, etc.

It just wouldn't work.

Also, I'm currently working on a Sindarin language file BTW.

If you use the REQUIRED tag (which is the only way I've actually seen COUNTER_TRIGGERs used) and a syndrome that activates at 0 and has no maximum value, the Cave Adaptation syndrome will be active whenever the creature is actually in the cave, regardless of its value, and shut off the moment they go outside.  So what you could do is make the creature non-viable by default, and then give them an additional cave adaptation-linked syndrome that makes them able to survive.

Like (for instance) you could make the default creature a statue with no brain, then give them a cave-adaptation syndrome that turns them into a viable form whenever they're in caves.  Leave the cave, and they'll revert to stone and die.  As long as they spawn in a cave, they should be fine until they go outside.  (They'll need a few frames to apply the syndrome in the first place, but I'm pretty sure brainlessness doesn't kill instantly, it just suffocates the creature.)  Alternatively, if the 'X has transformed into an Orc' messages are a bother, you could make them aquatic and immobile on land and make the underground give them NOBREATHE.  Or just make them without lungs.

None of this will be affected by day/night cycles though...unless...really weird idea but...if you use the monthly COUNTER_TRIGGER as a time-setter and make the syndrome go on and off each day... (set to Adventure Mode time, since days are pretty much immaterial in Fortress).  They won't be smart about it though, and that means you can kill an entire Orcish bandit group just by walking into their camp during the day   I guess they should just be underground and forget the whole day-night thing.

And yes, non-controlled creatures do have Cave Adaptation, even in Adventure Mode.  I've tested it.

Which brings us to the next question: Will the cave-adapted creatures afflicted with sunlight have their syndromes activated immediately, or will we have to wait until those orcs gradually turn to stone?

Also expressing much interest in this project.

[IndigoFenix]

The cave adaptation VALUE will decrease gradually, but the SYNDROME will activate (or more accurately, de-activate) immediately.  However, because they will spawn without the syndrome active in the first place (they self-apply it with a hintless interaction), you won't want the light to kill them in a single frame, or they'll die when they spawn.

[IndigoFenix]

erroneous post

[Child of Armok]

Not when they come trough the caverns.
But otherwise, yeah.
Maybe we could make something like the Shadow of Mordor.

[IndigoFenix]

Not when they come trough the caverns.
But otherwise, yeah.
Maybe we could make something like the Shadow of Mordor.

Depending on how you do it, it could be when they come through the caverns as well, unless you make the default syndrome the thing that kills them instead of making them non-viable by default.

Oh!  Make the syndrome paralyze them fully forever, and give it a cave adapt effect that makes them PARALYZEIMMUNE.  That ought to do the trick.  (It will also make them immune to being paralyzed, but that's better than making them unable to be suffocated.)\

Try this one:

Add to the creature:

Code: [Select]

[CAVE_ADAPT]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:PHOTOPARALYSIS]
[CDI:TARGET:A:SELF_ONLY]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:33600]
[CDI:FREE_ACTION]

The interaction:

Code: [Select]

[INTERACTION:PHOTOPARALYSIS]
[I_TARGET:A:CREATURE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_CREATURE]
[I_EFFECT:ADD_SYNDROME]
[IE_TARGET:A]
[IE_IMMEDIATE]
[SYNDROME]
[CE_PARALYSIS:SEV:1000:PROB:100:START:0:PEAK:5]
[CE_ADD_TAG:PARALYZEIMMUNE:START:0]
[CE:COUNTER_TRIGGER:CAVE_ADAPT:0:NONE:REQUIRED]


[Putnam]

Okay, great! I need to remember this. However, there's still the issue of the fact that sieges come from above ground. Since they apparently have random cave adaptation, this may not actually be too bad a problem, but it's still too random for my tastes.

[IndigoFenix]

Okay, great! I need to remember this. However, there's still the issue of the fact that sieges come from above ground. Since they apparently have random cave adaptation, this may not actually be too bad a problem, but it's still too random for my tastes.

Eh, this method will have to stick with creatures that spawn below ground (they won't be paralyzed when they reach 0 cave adaptation, they'll be paralyzed the moment they go above ground regardless of their level of cave adaptation).  If you want orcs on the march then having them die from being outside is pretty much out of the question.  (Although you could make them weakened by the sun instead of killed by it, like Sauruman's hybrid orcs.)  This 'die from sunlight' method should probably be retained for cave trolls or other exclusively underground creatures (although it is possible to make an underground civ that besieges you from below).

[Trapezohedron]

Okay, great! I need to remember this. However, there's still the issue of the fact that sieges come from above ground. Since they apparently have random cave adaptation, this may not actually be too bad a problem, but it's still too random for my tastes.

Eh, this method will have to stick with creatures that spawn below ground (they won't be paralyzed when they reach 0 cave adaptation, they'll be paralyzed the moment they go above ground regardless of their level of cave adaptation).  If you want orcs on the march then having them die from being outside is pretty much out of the question.  (Although you could make them weakened by the sun instead of killed by it, like Sauruman's hybrid orcs.)  This 'die from sunlight' method should probably be retained for cave trolls or other exclusively underground creatures (although it is possible to make an underground civ that besieges you from below).

As a certain Hugo_the_Dwarf has proven, IIRC.

Yeah, I guess he knows about these things.

[Putnam]

Okay, great! I need to remember this. However, there's still the issue of the fact that sieges come from above ground. Since they apparently have random cave adaptation, this may not actually be too bad a problem, but it's still too random for my tastes.

Eh, this method will have to stick with creatures that spawn below ground (they won't be paralyzed when they reach 0 cave adaptation, they'll be paralyzed the moment they go above ground regardless of their level of cave adaptation).  If you want orcs on the march then having them die from being outside is pretty much out of the question.  (Although you could make them weakened by the sun instead of killed by it, like Sauruman's hybrid orcs.)  This 'die from sunlight' method should probably be retained for cave trolls or other exclusively underground creatures (although it is possible to make an underground civ that besieges you from below).

Orcs themselves are only weakened; uruk-hai aren't affected at all.

[Roses]

Could maybe just lower their strength or toughness or something when they are in the sun?

[Putnam]

Like I said, the issue isn't with the modding, that's the easy part; the issue is with every orc you ever fight being weakened because all of them will be fighting above-ground.

[Child of Armok]

Like I said, the issue isn't with the modding, that's the easy part; the issue is with every orc you ever fight being weakened because all of them will be fighting above-ground.

Not True:
If you roofed over your entrance, if they come from the caverns, if they break trough your defences into your fort,.....

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Also not true if any tile has been touched by sunlight it is OUTSIDE and even being roofed over still counts as Outside even if it says inside

[Putnam]

No, it's inside, but it's also LIGHT, so that ruins it.