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Poll

Should Kobolds be able to dig everything?

Yes, but have Indigo's SCIENCE encourage suface living
- 8 (22.2%)
Yes, but they can't learn mining. Kobolds live in caves why should they be affected.
- 13 (36.1%)
No, They only have Shovels. So soil is good enough, embark on a cave or old fortress.
- 15 (41.7%)

Total Members Voted: 35

Voting closed: July 05, 2012, 12:32:52 pm


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6

Author Topic: [Kobold Camp 2012] Head for Lago's Thread, it's more updated  (Read 14269 times)

Corai

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2012, 10:00:14 pm »

Kobolds should be able to make bows, Wyrm. What civilization has never, ever managed to make a wooden bow?
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Rakonas

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2012, 10:05:24 pm »

Also Obsidian, I can make diggable too but... if you find a place that has Obsidian as layers then you can basically *dig* anywhere you want and live like a dwarf :/
But what I could do is make a workshop, that requires magma to be built. And has a reaction to take a bucket of water and make a obsidian boulder. So kobolds living on a volcano can get obsidian.
Key word imo. It goes against the whole point of the mod to do it but it doesn't really affect anything negatively if it's physically possible to do. Personally I feel the need to go the extra mile and limit myself beyond game mechanics (ie: Kobolds not being able to dig perfect squares) but if the things I do were enforced by game mechanics it would be upsetting. I do like the workshop idea but I think it'd be nearly impossible to find the right shaped volcano crater naturally, based on experience of always needing to channel magma in order to get magma forges.
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2012, 10:29:27 pm »

I'll try to go over the basic list of weapon types and what I think kobolds should have for them.

Digging--Shovels. Duh
Woodcutting/Limb Severing--Hatchets.
Stabbing--Spikes/Stakes, Daggers (wrong category?). Daggers should be createable directly from enemy swords and spears and such, and should be the non-crude version of the weapon. As non-kobold-specific weapons should be unuseable by kobolds, this will make daggers very useful, even though you can't make them out of wood.
Combo-Sharp--Daggers. See above. Maybe add some kind of small, swordlike weapon?
Armor-piercing--Clubs. They should have a big head, fairly small contact area, and high velocity multiplier so that even wooden ones are good vs. armor.
Projectile--Atlatls (or spearthrowers, for a non-aztecey feel). Kobolds should also be able to steal bows and make arrows.

Weird*--War-Totems. They'd be a bit harder to make (requiring a special workshop to transform totems into war-totems and perhaps having a chance to produce a syndromey gas mentioned below) but once you do you can have a shaman "chant" or something to summon some charges for the totems, with a chance of producing a strange gas that renders the shaman injured and tired in its wake. The charges would be an ammo type called "charge," with a material called "magical" that has 0 material_value (to prevent trade spam). Totems would be weaker than atlatls, but would have cheaper ammo. Their attacks in melee would use the hammer or mace skill, as opposed to the atlatls's sword- or knifebold skill.
Cheap--Some sort of wooden weapon, like a small stake. Uses the knife skill.
Expensive**--Maybe daggers, since they require you to break down enemy weapons to make, but more interesting is some kind of reverse-engineered crossbow (termed the "crude crossbow" for now). The crude crossbow would be tough to make. The first step would be to break down enemy crossbows, creating "crossbow parts" (tools?) and possibly crossbow plans. Using the crossbow plans (which might be preserved, or might be consumed 1-5% of the time), a bowyer/mechanic in a custom workshop could make a crude crossbow from crossbow parts; using the plans with no chance of destruction, s/he could also make wooden crossbow parts or bolts. Maybe some kind of upgraded war-totem (requiring some kind of sacrifice of wood, food, or blood?), capable of being used to summon "powerful magic" charges, would be neat.
*Like whips.
**No precedent in vanilla, but plenty in mods.
Digging = done (shovels)
Woodcutting = done (choppers) but I like the idea of hatchets, but chopper almost sounds like a koboldy nickname for it (anyone like chopper or like hatchet?)
Stabbing = done? I have given spears to kobolds (I assume stabbing with SPEAR skill)
Combo-Sharp = done? Daggers and Machetes (knife and sword skills) altho machete... I could name chopper and call old coppers hatchets (see above)
Armor breakers = done? Clubs are in yes, that is a mace kill. But what could be used as a hammer, that is small enough for a bold to use?
Ranged = done? spear throwers, at the moment use sword as melee due to machete and "throw" for range. Altho I should probally remove the machete, but most rangers attack with their weapon when ammo is spent :/

War Totems, you when I saw that I was like "Hey would a war totem be something that a cheif or warband leader would wear like a flag?" but then I saw it was a special ranged weapon.
As for special ranged weapons, erm Idk i'd prefer to keep magic as interactions, Since there would be "magical charges" laying everywhere. but interactions can leave globs and crud, but you can clean those. So maybe a shrine or medition place or totem hall for shamans/witch-doctors to learn "spells" at the cost of weakness and maybe diseases. also costing food or bones to start. and it's never 100% chance.

For above hammer idea how about staves? give a staff to your shaman?

Cheap, small stake? why not wooden and bone spears?

Expensive. I have a idea in Regen's KC about breaking down metal weapons and armor which give you "crude <metal> chunks" in which can be cold hammered into weapons and armor (crude metal is 10% weaker then their orginals) so you can make "crude iron daggers" that is if you can kill armed and armored foes :P

bows I think are in, KC had them orginally
Crossbows or some idea of reverse making one seems doable. Could give an advantage of it shooting stronger then bows (kobolds are small so the power and range from a long bow would be impossible due to their small size)

Also I'm not trying to bash your helpful ideas GWG :P they are good hehe It's just current DF has some nice features that I like to abuse.

@Rakonas
well If I allow digging what is stopping little bolds carving out a dwarven fortress? The player. And what is stopping the player from digging a dwarven fortress? The mod. I guess you will have to embark on dangerous caves, and hope that down there is a magma pipe/pool :P

Of course if people want bolds to *mine* stuff out, it is no hassle for me to allow that. But I am trying to keep this as close to KC's orginal goal. And not some bastard child made by me.
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DarthBoogalo

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2012, 04:18:43 pm »

If someone wants to make their kobolds mine, they can mod the raws themselves.
Alternatively, you could have a second download for a kobold mod-mod, with the only difference being you can dig.
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2012, 07:59:29 pm »

Well to allow digging it would be as simple as going into the Material_Template_Default and removing UNDIGGABLE from the stone_template and tada. Stone can now be dug.
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Twangykid

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2012, 08:21:24 pm »

I'd like to mention, from personal experience, THROW ranged weapons are annoying. I'd always embark with a ranged soldier and a woodcrafter, y'see, and having them chuck spears/shoot with a bow at birds could lead to legendary by the first summer. However, even when legendary, throwing is not a military skill. Which means they stay as recruits. Which means they get negative thoughts about draft and long patrol. I recently lost a fort because my two legendary throwers were tantruming during a necro ambush.

Another thing: When people tantrum, they throw things. I had a legendary thrower tantrum in my dining room.

With a quiver full of spears. There were no survivors.
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2012, 08:26:02 pm »

That is why you have them do drills to train the melee aspect of their ranged weapon :P

In my Mod I have throwing axes, but they come with a battle axe. Fighters throw all their axes then charge in to finish the job. Axemen with Throwing skills = badass.

But I see your concern, and is noted. As It should.

EDIT:
also explains why I don't see any Throwing Knife invaders
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DarthBoogalo

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2012, 09:00:56 am »

With a quiver full of spears. There were no survivors.
I once had a tantruming woodcutter throwing prepared food everywhere, by chance, a pie(modded) was thrown at a nearby bird, which either shot straight through it's skull, killing it instantly or somehow crippled both it's wings in one go, I forget, the corpse fell and landed on a crafter, breaking his spine.

Throwing shenanigans aside, you could replace the throwing skill used for the javelins and such with crossbow or bow, but if that keeps the 'bolds from throwing axes then whipping out a battleaxe, that would be unfortunate!
====
I had an idea in mind for a mod I wanted to make, but gave up on and may or may not attempt again, the idea was their were the evil scaly kobolds that steal everything(babies too!) and live in deserts and caves, and the not-so-evil 'cutebolds' that steal everything that isn't a baby that would work with the other 'good' races in a civ, using castes to have humans, elves, dwarves and kobolds against the icky things(goblins, kobolds, ogres and such), also made a single civ using castes.

What I'm saying is, you could throw in an equally-sized and also scalier badguy civ for the kobolds to steal and be stolen from, because the only thing worse then a kobold, is a baby stealing kobold, right?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 09:08:08 am by DarthBoogalo »
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Rakonas

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2012, 09:46:21 am »

With a quiver full of spears. There were no survivors.
I once had a tantruming woodcutter throwing prepared food everywhere, by chance, a pie(modded) was thrown at a nearby bird, which either shot straight through it's skull, killing it instantly or somehow crippled both it's wings in one go, I forget, the corpse fell and landed on a crafter, breaking his spine.

Throwing shenanigans aside, you could replace the throwing skill used for the javelins and such with crossbow or bow, but if that keeps the 'bolds from throwing axes then whipping out a battleaxe, that would be unfortunate!
====

I would think you could mod in an axe which uses throwing axes as ammo, thus when there's no more ammo they would attack using the axe like a marksdwarf would bash with a crossbow.
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DarthBoogalo

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2012, 09:48:38 am »

That's a wonderful idea, you are a wonderful person.
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2012, 12:24:02 pm »

I already have the above mentioned throwing weapon + weapon done. only oddity is being able to make bone and wood versions at the bowers shop. of course it's easier to mass train woodcutter this way.
Spoiler: Throwing axes (click to show/hide)
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2012, 05:06:27 pm »

Kobolds should be able to make bows, Wyrm. What civilization has never, ever managed to make a wooden bow?
IIRC:
-Polynesians (apparently, ranged weapons aren't big on jungley islands)
-Australian abigorigenes (they have boomerangs, instead; probably not enough wood for arrow shafts)
-Mesoamericans (they have atlatls, but I've never seen mention of bows)
-Amazon (and other?) Rainforest natives (they use blowguns)
-Incas (I dunno what or why they use, but I don't think they had bows).
Besides, the idea was partly to encourage kobolds to not steal any metal weapons from other races, to encourage the useage of the "break down weapon" thing mentioned.

With a quiver full of spears. There were no survivors.
I once had a tantruming woodcutter throwing prepared food everywhere, by chance, a pie(modded) was thrown at a nearby bird, which either shot straight through it's skull, killing it instantly or somehow crippled both it's wings in one go, I forget, the corpse fell and landed on a crafter, breaking his spine.

Throwing shenanigans aside, you could replace the throwing skill used for the javelins and such with crossbow or bow, but if that keeps the 'bolds from throwing axes then whipping out a battleaxe, that would be unfortunate!
====
I had an idea in mind for a mod I wanted to make, but gave up on and may or may not attempt again, the idea was their were the evil scaly kobolds that steal everything(babies too!) and live in deserts and caves, and the not-so-evil 'cutebolds' that steal everything that isn't a baby that would work with the other 'good' races in a civ, using castes to have humans, elves, dwarves and kobolds against the icky things(goblins, kobolds, ogres and such), also made a single civ using castes.

What I'm saying is, you could throw in an equally-sized and also scalier badguy civ for the kobolds to steal and be stolen from, because the only thing worse then a kobold, is a baby stealing kobold, right?
How about a spouse-converting kobold? I think civs can use the spouse_converter tag, although I'm not sure how well it works.

And about using my ideas: It's alright, use as much or as little as you like. The idea with "cheap" weapons was that you'd be able to make multiple from a single log or whatever.
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2012, 05:30:25 pm »

That "cheap" works, make about 3-5 spears from one log. Or anything else. I hate to say this Kobold campers, but I need to take a small break from modding. But that doesn't mean im not around gathering intel, and planning out what needs to be done. Just looking at Walls of Text for too long makes my eyes hurt.

I should probally be back in action in a week. But if you guys want to play a updated KC, I can disable a bunch of features in regen. And post regen's KC as a placeholder for V1.5

Yay or Nay? I am willing to brave the sea of text for this. If this is wanted.

(by disable I mean, Removed extra civs, disable playabilty from Humans and Dwarves. so on and so forth until a simple KC is made)
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2012, 08:11:34 pm »

If I were you, I would do as Toady does: Make sure what I've got is playable, release that, and not make some placeholders for when I get around to doing things right.
Besides, if you're getting sick of textscreens, fiddling with regen won't help.
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Kobold Camp Version 1.5 for DF 34.11 in progress
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2012, 09:07:30 pm »

True, but with the release of Alpha 4, and when I feel like modding my goals are:

Kobold Camp
Regen Wiki

So I will be jumping between the two of those. The wiki is not so bad, so when glaring at text for KC is too much I'll relax with some Wiki work. And when I gets too much, I should be back to KC.

Like right now I'm working on KC. Because I have a good feeling of modding, instead of feeling so sick of it :P
I want to get a working version out, So I will take your advice be be like the Great Toad. By the way, saw a toad on my way into my house. Must be a sign :P

Great news all, a prototype of KC will be out soonish. Just gotta clean some things up, and give'r a test run.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 10:26:40 pm by Hugo_The_Dwarf »
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