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Author Topic: Some newbie hlep please.  (Read 3231 times)

greycat

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2012, 03:03:38 pm »

The more people are set to attend to the demonstrations the longer it may take for these to actually start as every dwarf has to show up first.

That's false.  The reason large squads train inefficiently is because dwarf 1 gets to teach striking to dwarf 3 and 4, and dwarf 2 gets to teach dodging to dwarf 4 and 5, except dwarf 4 is busy learning striking, so dwarf 2 only teaches dwarf 5, and dwarf 6 was supposed to teach wrestling to dwarves 1 and 7, but dwarf 6 got thirsty, so that demonstration got cancelled, and dwarf 7 is just doing individual weapon drills....

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Also, I forgot to ask, what shop/section should I make the gold figurines in? I can't seem to find it in my metalshop.

Uh, I really do not know for sure - I never make crafts. But iirc they should be found under "Other Items" or something similar.

Figurines are just one of the random "craft" outputs.  If you want to maximize value, I think goblets or flasks may be best, but the wiki may have better knowledge than I do.
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Mohawk_Bravo

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2012, 06:03:45 pm »

Okay, well I started a new fortress since most of my population had either gone crazy or been slaughtered, leaving me with a diminutive (pun entirely intended) work force composed of beekeepers and such. Either way, my new fortress is off to a running start. I was able to produce a large quantity of silver and copper trinkets to trade for some iron to make some armor. I've got a small squad (three dwarves) for security, and enough nobles to keep industry running. As well, I had my first experience with lignite/coal/coke. Either way, I have a few more questions.

It seems like I haven't seen a trader yet and I'm starting to get concerned that I might need to expand my stores in order to hold all the scepters/rings/crowns/etc that I've produced. It says my Trade Depot is inaccessable and I'm not sure why. My entrance way it a channel 3x3 with a 20x3 hallway leading to my trade depot. The only traps I have so far are two sets of rock fall traps. I'm not sure if it is inaccessable (it said the same before, and I had plenty of traders) or if I'm doing something wrong. Any ideas guys?

I don't seem to understand the whole training thing mentioned earlier. I've been setting my squad to active/training as their other jobs are all rather minor (digging, chopping, etc), but they continue their daily chores. Am I doing something wrong? Also in the wiki guide they suggested axes. When I get some iron should I make some axes for my squad? Individual choice weapons perhaps? Or is there another common strategy.

Lastly, I'm having food problems. out of my 13 dwarves, I've assigned 3-4 to farm plots and have plotted out 8 3x3 plots so far. For the most part I've been growing Plump Helmets (i think that's what they are called), with a few patches devoted to Pig Tails for a future textiles industry. Yet I'm still dwinding in food and booze, with no sign of upping my stores any time soon. Is there anything else I can do or something I'm doing wrong? I'm concerned that I might be stretching my metal industry profits too thin for both armor crafting and reserve food.

Thanks again guys. This game is so great, I just need some tips and advice on design and infastructure. I did see the wiki (in fact I used the quickstart guide in order to figure out all the different basics) it's just nice to be able to back and forth with other players who have been through some of the trials and tribulations i'm experiencing now. Again, thanks.
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Garath

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2012, 06:57:20 pm »

first of all, at least 3 of my first few forts simply failed because I simply had no clue, so never feel shame, the learning curve is pretty steep

a couple of farmers should be fine. What you should be sure of is that the seed stockpile doesn;t take barrels and that the farmers don't have other higher priority jobs

traps block wagon access. that doesn't mean you won't get traders, but they'll be very limited in how much stuff they bring or can take away

for training, you also need to set a barracks for them. I think it can be set from a chest, cabinet, weapon rack or armor stand

Iron axes are pretty good (only 2 better, steel or candy). Why are they good? they sever limbs, which will provide a good advantage against any enemy. More importantly, some enemies will only die if you cut them to pieces; no nervous system, no blood, no vital organs. Only cutting the head off or cutting the body in half will kill them. This goes for bronze colossuses and some FB
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Dustylou2

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2012, 07:01:52 pm »

Food-wise, I sometimes have similar problems. If trees aren't scarce, I would recommend fertilization. With a wood furnace, make some ash, and then using an Ashery (b -> w -> y), make the ash into potash. Select the farm plots and press 'f' to order the dwarves to fertilize them. For long term, select seasonal fertilization. The fertilizer should make you end up with more crops each harvest. As a side note, if you are making prepared meals, don't cook Plump Helmets. Cooking them annihilates the seeds, whereas brewing them or simply eating them leaves seeds behind.

i2amroy

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2012, 07:02:36 pm »

It seems like I haven't seen a trader yet and I'm starting to get concerned that I might need to expand my stores in order to hold all the scepters/rings/crowns/etc that I've produced. It says my Trade Depot is inaccessable and I'm not sure why. My entrance way it a channel 3x3 with a 20x3 hallway leading to my trade depot. The only traps I have so far are two sets of rock fall traps. I'm not sure if it is inaccessable (it said the same before, and I had plenty of traders) or if I'm doing something wrong. Any ideas guys?
The very first dwarven traders should show up in your first autumn, or at worst the autumn after that. Other traders will show up based on whether or not they can access your civilization, so it's possible that you simply embarked in a place that can't be reached by humans or elves. Traders will still show up if you depot is shown as "inaccessible", they just won't bring wagons when they do. As for the blockage problem know that traps can't be moved over by wagons. The easiest way to tell where the blockage is is to go to the depot screen, look at the depot, and then follow the green squares outwards. When the green squares stop you know that that is your blockage problem. Lastly for the problem of holding something if you have a little bit of wood you can make some bins at a carpenters workshop. Your dwarves will then stuff the crafts into the bins, allowing them to fit into a much smaller space and be transported much easier.
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I don't seem to understand the whole training thing mentioned earlier. I've been setting my squad to active/training as their other jobs are all rather minor (digging, chopping, etc), but they continue their daily chores. Am I doing something wrong? Also in the wiki guide they suggested axes. When I get some iron should I make some axes for my squad? Individual choice weapons perhaps? Or is there another common strategy.
Have you assigned them to a barracks? After you designate a barracks (from a bed, weapon rack, or armor stand), you need to highlight the name of your quad and press 't' in order to enable the squad to train there. As for weapon choice, always make all members of a squad use the same weapon to increase training speed. Elsewise dwarves will demonstrate useless skills, like spear user to axe wielders.
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Lastly, I'm having food problems. out of my 13 dwarves, I've assigned 3-4 to farm plots and have plotted out 8 3x3 plots so far. For the most part I've been growing Plump Helmets (i think that's what they are called), with a few patches devoted to Pig Tails for a future textiles industry. Yet I'm still dwinding in food and booze, with no sign of upping my stores any time soon. Is there anything else I can do or something I'm doing wrong? I'm concerned that I might be stretching my metal industry profits too thin for both armor crafting and reserve food.
Are you cooking your food? I find that early on cooking food can be a rather bad idea since it destroys the seeds that would normally be used for food. Other then that your problem is probably just unskilled growers. Growing skill has a large effect on the amount of food grown from each seed, so unskilled growers will produce several times less food then skilled ones. I'd say that just stick with your few farmers and as they grow more skilled your food problems will vanish. In the meantime I suggest that you simply make some rock crafts and trade them to the traders for food and booze while you wait.
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Mohawk_Bravo

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2012, 07:06:31 pm »

Perfect, thank you very much. I've started building my armory, but I'm still concerned about food production. I had a few more immigrants so I split them between farming, smelting/smithing, and military service. I should be able to equip them as soon as the first trader comes in and I can trade for some iron. What do you mean by making sure my seeds don't take barrels? I'm seriously concerned as my 8 3x3 plots are rarely full and never fully planted.
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Garath

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2012, 07:13:39 pm »

seeds are stored in bags, then the bags are stored in barrels. If a farmer wants to plant a seed, he'll take the whole barrel, so any farmer who wants to plant a different seed that is stored in the same barrel will cancel hiss job. If you disable barrels for a seed stockpile, you won't plant many of the same seeds, but if one farmer plants plump helmets, someone else can plant pig tails
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Mohawk_Bravo

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2012, 08:14:47 pm »

So I should disable barrels as seed storage? I'm starting to get irritated that I dug out so many plots and have so many farmers who are standing around doing nothing. How would I go about doing that?
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i2amroy

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2012, 08:16:41 pm »

So I should disable barrels as seed storage? I'm starting to get irritated that I dug out so many plots and have so many farmers who are standing around doing nothing. How would I go about doing that?
IIRC you just "q" over the stockpile and then there should be an option like "number of barrels" that you can increase/decrease to zero.
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Laurin

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2012, 11:57:28 pm »

Depending on your surroundings you can also mark an area for gathering plants the same way you mark it for felling trees, only with d-p. Some of your dwarves need the plant gathering labor enabled.
You will get some berries or such and can either cook them or brew them.
Some of them can be milled into flour using a quern. Flour can be used for cooking.

If the surroundings are not to hostile you could enable the fishing and corresponding labors for one or two dwarves and build a fishery. You might get some turtles or fish.

If one or two of the draft animals you get for free with embarking were females you could milk them (needing a farming workshop and nearby built chain or rope) and make cheese.

The male animal/animals can be slaughtered and used for cooking. Build also a tanner workshop to get leather.

If you don't have a hunter, enable the labor for one dwarf and build a crossbow, bolts and a quiver. Hunters bring small animals wich add a bit to the food supply and some leather.

Buy any seeds from the next caravan and build small farm plots above or underground acoording to the seeds. You may also get above ground seeds from brewing gathered plants like strawberries or fisher berries. Have a look at the wiki article on crops: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Crop
Forbid the berries for cooking in the kitchen menu and brew them to get seeds for further planting.

In times of need you may have to slaughter any animals you brought on embark to survive until the caravan arrives.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 12:08:29 am by Laurin »
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Berlioz

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2012, 12:05:33 am »

Farming is very effective, you shouldn't run into any food problems.
Yes, the hauling is buggy and not using bins helps, but I ignore it for farming, since I don't even know what to do with all the food. Having a dedicated seed stockpile near your farms helps, do that for all your worksites.
Use only 1-2 dwarves for farming, but deactivate all other chores for them. 3 or 4 plots are plenty, maybe make them 5x5, but it doesn't really matter. They will learn quickly and improve the yield, usually I embark with 2 growers. Wait with the pig tail farming until you got enough food. Use different crops for different plots to reduce the hauling bug. If you're really low butcher animals and send a dwarf to gather local plants.
Don't let the kitchen cook your plants, brew them first and use the drinks to cook, it's 5 times as efficient. First only use a still, no kitchen, dwarves eat anything, but they're choosy with their drinks. Have a dwarf brew all the time, later you can even deactivate all other tasks for your dedicated brewer. Make rock pots or if you have too much wood, barrels.
Strange moods are a good thing, you'll get an artifact and often a legendary crafter, if you're lucky even a legendary smith, but they want certain materials. If you cannot provide a workshop and the materials they will go insane instead of crafting an artifact. Have normal and silk cloth ready, as well as a few blocks (material matters only for the value), that should take care of most problems. Some glass might be useful, too. Only shells are hard to come by. Using "q" on the  workshop will reveal what the dwarf desires.
Trading is not that hard, the first (dwarven) caravan arrives in autumn, the next (elven) in spring. You cannot have any traps blocking the way, nor stones or trees. That means anything from the traps menu. Use "q" on the trade depot to move stuff to trade once the caravan enters the map and request your broker to come to trade. You can use a burrow to force him. Elves will not accept anything containing wood, so be careful. Always give more than you get, 30-50% more is a good range.
In the first year mechanisms are a surprisingly valueable trade good, especially made from flux or obsidian. Later make crafts, especially from valuable materials by a good crafter. Let your gem setter encrust finished goods. An aluminum craft can be worth several thousand and when encrusted by a skillful gem setter you can trade one against an entire caravan. Train your crafters with worthless stuff. Most valuable are a good metal crafter and gem setter, but basically any good crafter will produce more valueable trading goods than you can ever use. Even a good clothier will make you very rich, especially if you go through the hassle of dyeing your cloth.
Garbage dumping and refuse are different things, make a refuse stockpile outside to get rid of carcasses, build coffins for your own dwarves. Garbage dumping is a way to gather stuff in a single tile. Use d-b-d to mass-dump stuff. Useful for clearing large areas or disarming caged prisoners. (Use k-d on the cage, so it doesn't get dumped with the stuff.)
Military is a little bit more complex, but for starters a few marksdwarves with wooden weapons work nicely. Carve fortifications to protect them.
There are different weapon grade metals: Silver is only useful for blunt weapons, copper is the first one you can use for anything and produces fine weaponry, if you have cassirite (tin) you can make bronze or bismuth bronze, which is even better and on par with iron. Steel is the best metal before you get really deep, but harder to produce. Iron can only be found in sedimentary layers, usually near the surface, but often there is none at all, so smelting stuff is your only option.

General advice:
- Have as much miners as possible, buy/craft more copper pickaxes soon.
- Several masons and mechanics are useful, too. Make everything you can out of rock. Only allow your best masons to craft stuff.
- Traps are very powerful, pave the map with cage traps, dump trash weapons in weapon traps.
- Use drawbridges, easy to build, but very useful and versatile. Caravans pass over a lowered bridge.
- Chain some wardogs or other animals at your entrance to detect thieves and snatchers, but inside to protect them from enemy archers. Caravans ignore chains and animals.
- Good food, drinks and a large dining hall make your dwarves happy and are easy to provide. Give them some furniture for their quarters and they will never rebell.
- Ask the dwarven liason for stuff you cannot get easily, usually I ask for every type of leather, wood and silk cloth (for moody dwarves) in the first year, they willl bring tons on their second voyage. If you miss iron/steel ask for the following: steel, iron and pig iron bars, anvils, hematite, limonite and magnetite. If you're very rich and very low on iron ask for armor.

Did I forget anything?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 12:11:02 am by Berlioz »
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Garath

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2012, 02:30:11 am »

if you don't have flux for steel making you can ask for flux stone too
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Trif

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2012, 05:24:05 am »

Well, Berlioz covered almost everything (that a newbie should know).
I'll just add a few things I noticed.

Bins can be very useful when you produce many small items, and they save a lot of storage space. They just get inconvenient when your stockpiles and your workshops are too far apart.

On garbage dumps, every item that has been dumped is forbidden and your dwarfs won't use it. To reclaim them, it's best to use d-b-c. I've also heard somewhere that all dumped items rot eventually, but I haven't tried it.

Traps are extremely powerful, overpowered to be precise. I don't use them very often because a well-trained militia is better Fun potential, but you'll have to decide that for yourself.

- Good food, drinks and a large dining hall make your dwarves happy and are easy to provide. Give them some furniture for their quarters and they will never rebell.
Dwarfs will always find a way :)

And some final advice: If you don't know what to do, dig deeper. Good luck!
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greycat

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2012, 07:18:32 am »

seeds are stored in bags, then the bags are stored in barrels.

Correct.

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If a farmer wants to plant a seed, he'll take the whole barrel, so any farmer who wants to plant a different seed that is stored in the same barrel will cancel hiss job.

Incorrect.  When a farmer plants a seed, he just takes one seed out of the bag.  That part's not broken.

When someone eats a plump helmet in the dining room and produces seeds, a hauler will take the entire bag of plump helmet seeds to the dining room, put the seed in it, and then (usually) drop the bag right there on the table.  Then someone else will take the whole barrel out of the seed stockpile, bring it to the dining room where the errant bag is, and put the bag into the barrel.  Then finally someone will bring the barrel back to the seed stockpile.

By disallowing barrels in the seed stockpile, you save only the last of these steps.  A hauler will still take a whole bag of seeds to go collect 1-2 more seeds, but at least they won't take the barrel with all the rest of the bags out of the stockpile.

If the original poster's farms aren't being planted, then the most likely culprit is that he cooked all the plants instead of brewing them, and doesn't have any more seeds.  Cooking plants should be disabled in the z -> kitchen menu, unless you have a specific reason to allow them.  Likewise, you should consider disallowing cooking your booze (same menu).

The second most likely reason is that the plants simply haven't been used up yet, so there aren't any new seeds.  Try brewing some booze and processing some pig tails into threads, in order to produce seeds.  (And consider disallowing brewing pig tails... but that's not a hard and fast rule.)  Also, "8 3x3 plots" for 13 dwarves is massive overkill.  That's enough farmland for at least 70 dwarves.
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Noobazzah

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Re: Some newbie hlep please.
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2012, 09:20:28 am »

By the way, traps DON'T block wagons! Trees, doors and such do. I personally prefer to make a paved road to the edge of the map, unless there isn't much trees around.
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