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[guitarxe]

Flying creatures... underground? 
Do those really exist?

Demons fly, some FB's fly, some cave creatures fly.

A zombie version of a flying creature will also fly.

Sure, but while they are actually underground?

[Xenos]

Flying creatures... underground? 
Do those really exist?

Demons fly, some FB's fly, some cave creatures fly.

A zombie version of a flying creature will also fly.

Sure, but while they are actually underground?

Yup.  Dig into the caverns with up/down stairs over open space and wait for a flying FB to come 'visit' your fort. 

[guitarxe]

Wow... that... I mean... man it completely ruins my fort design if I need a roof over everything. That's just like living on the surface

Oh well, thanks for the headsup on that. Never knew that before.

[Dwarfler]

Wow... that... I mean... man it completely ruins my fort design if I need a roof over everything. That's just like living on the surface

You don't need to *build* a roof if that's what you mean, caverns have a natural roof.  We're just saying that when you use walls to seal off parts of the cavern, you need to make sure that your walls go all the way up to the cavern ceiling in order to keep flyers out.

[guitarxe]

Hm, well I guess I could incorporate some very high walls into my design while still making it look as "natural" as possible.

Has anyone done any underground forts? I've seen the stonesense thread and all the large, impressive looking forts are always on the surface rather than in the caverns.

[Xenos]

Hm, well I guess I could incorporate some very high walls into my design while still making it look as "natural" as possible.

Has anyone done any underground forts? I've seen the stonesense thread and all the large, impressive looking forts are always on the surface rather than in the caverns.

Just place your walls at the very edge of the map and build however you originally planned to in the caverns and you should be good.  Lakes will be troublesome unless you floor them off or something similar.

[Hyndis]

You need to build a wall of pumps to drain any lakes. Keep the pumps going to create a Moses effect. Once the lake is dry, then construct a wall. Rig up an additional pump, just a single one is fine, to fill up the now artificial lake from the water source on the edge of the map. If the pump draws its water up through a grate it will be completely safe from building destroyers.

You may still get a FB swimming around in the walled off water tiles between the safe water and the edge of the map, but it will be trapped there and its harmless.

[Mister Dirks]

Actually, I embark in the caverns all the time. For some reason, my fortresses live longer. My current cavern fort is currently in lockdown from the Unclaimed Lands in the caverns, due to a gigantic fire-breathing gopher currently set the entire caverns on fire, and is still running around. =/.

But, yeah, don't forget the multi-leveled walls, I forget them a lot, and giant bats always come in and debrain a couple of my dorfs before flying off.

Also, I don't think you need ramps to the surface. The caravans that come to my fort just take the large up/down staircase from the surface to the depths.

[guitarxe]

But that doesn't allow wagons, though...

[Sutremaine]

It will probably take 5-10 years before you're ready to move into the caverns, but until you're ready to move into the caverns you need a place for all of your dwarves.

5-10 years? I had the first cavern of a 4x3 embark walled off on the first level by the end of the first year, and walled up to the ceilings by the end of the second. It helped that the caverns tended to spawn pond grabbers, which is less good now that I'm trying to figure out if I've killed all the spawn points for land-based wildlife. FBs have no problem dropping in through the patch of deconstructed wall, but I've never seen anything else walk into the traps there.

Depending on what's down in the caverns when you first start out, you might be able to move in straight away. Wall off a small section of cavern with water access, and then create an entryway as you would above ground. Troglodytes, naked mole dogs, and cave crocodiles are pains in the butt so build a wall of cage traps (mostly to catch the cave crocs), but giant olms and pond grabbers will generally chill in the water until you send your cavern scout too close.

It's pretty nice having access to all that wood and water. Once I get a better trap entrance set up I can let wagons leave through that and only have the surface open for three weeks in the year.

[Hyndis]

It will probably take 5-10 years before you're ready to move into the caverns, but until you're ready to move into the caverns you need a place for all of your dwarves.

5-10 years? I had the first cavern of a 4x3 embark walled off on the first level by the end of the first year, and walled up to the ceilings by the end of the second. It helped that the caverns tended to spawn pond grabbers, which is less good now that I'm trying to figure out if I've killed all the spawn points for land-based wildlife. FBs have no problem dropping in through the patch of deconstructed wall, but I've never seen anything else walk into the traps there.

Depending on what's down in the caverns when you first start out, you might be able to move in straight away. Wall off a small section of cavern with water access, and then create an entryway as you would above ground. Troglodytes, naked mole dogs, and cave crocodiles are pains in the butt so build a wall of cage traps (mostly to catch the cave crocs), but giant olms and pond grabbers will generally chill in the water until you send your cavern scout too close.

It's pretty nice having access to all that wood and water. Once I get a better trap entrance set up I can let wagons leave through that and only have the surface open for three weeks in the year.

When you first embark you need to defend your supplies against any invaders, so you need to secure the perimeter, find a source of water and a farm, set up some beds and storage. Just build a very simple small fort, but it needs to provide for defense, food, booze, and sleeping areas.

Then from there you need to outfit a military. The miners need to dig down and find metals, and the metals must be smelted and forged into equipment. Alternatively you can buy the equipment from traders, but it will probably take a few caravans to get everything you need. In order to buy the stuff you need to produce trade goods, but either way this takes some time.

After you have some gear for your soldier, train 'em up. Even using a danger room it will take some time to build the danger room.

While the soldiers are getting ready you need a large number of blocks for walling off the caverns. The masons can work on these while the soldiers are getting ready.

Zone the cavern as a burrow and order your soldiers to defend the burrow. Then start walling off the caverns. All the way to the ceiling. You'll need to build stairs to do this as well, so it could take a while. Depending on how hostile the wildlife in the caverns are this could be very dangerous as well.

[Xenos]

It will probably take 5-10 years before you're ready to move into the caverns, but until you're ready to move into the caverns you need a place for all of your dwarves.

5-10 years? I had the first cavern of a 4x3 embark walled off on the first level by the end of the first year, and walled up to the ceilings by the end of the second. It helped that the caverns tended to spawn pond grabbers, which is less good now that I'm trying to figure out if I've killed all the spawn points for land-based wildlife. FBs have no problem dropping in through the patch of deconstructed wall, but I've never seen anything else walk into the traps there.

Depending on what's down in the caverns when you first start out, you might be able to move in straight away. Wall off a small section of cavern with water access, and then create an entryway as you would above ground. Troglodytes, naked mole dogs, and cave crocodiles are pains in the butt so build a wall of cage traps (mostly to catch the cave crocs), but giant olms and pond grabbers will generally chill in the water until you send your cavern scout too close.

It's pretty nice having access to all that wood and water. Once I get a better trap entrance set up I can let wagons leave through that and only have the surface open for three weeks in the year.

When you first embark you need to defend your supplies against any invaders, so you need to secure the perimeter, find a source of water and a farm, set up some beds and storage. Just build a very simple small fort, but it needs to provide for defense, food, booze, and sleeping areas.

Then from there you need to outfit a military. The miners need to dig down and find metals, and the metals must be smelted and forged into equipment. Alternatively you can buy the equipment from traders, but it will probably take a few caravans to get everything you need. In order to buy the stuff you need to produce trade goods, but either way this takes some time.

After you have some gear for your soldier, train 'em up. Even using a danger room it will take some time to build the danger room.

While the soldiers are getting ready you need a large number of blocks for walling off the caverns. The masons can work on these while the soldiers are getting ready.

Zone the cavern as a burrow and order your soldiers to defend the burrow. Then start walling off the caverns. All the way to the ceiling. You'll need to build stairs to do this as well, so it could take a while. Depending on how hostile the wildlife in the caverns are this could be very dangerous as well.

If you want a minimal military force then put points into military skills and bring some malachite/tetrahedrite (malachite is better) bismuth and cassiterite and equip your troops with the dirt cheap bronze equipment that will be plenty to handle wildlife.  Then invest points heavily into rock and have 2 masons churning out blocks like crazy.  2 soldiers 2 masons, 2 miners, and a grower/brewer/gatherer should be plenty to get the caverns walled off on ground level very quickly and then start walling the rest of the layers.  any lakes can get floored over as needed (or walled around the lake depending on the size.

[Sutremaine]

I brought the ores and the coal with me, so no issues with equipment. The area was pretty tame with regards to the wildlife, so defence was unecessary. Cavern access was gained via a long 3-wide ramp with a small flat area in it to allow a few key buildings to exist, which took care of sleeping and training needs.

If I did need to get underground ASAP, I'd throw everything on the wagon down one side of a U-shaped tunnel with a wall at the bottom of it (to stop head injuries), then dig out an 11x11 space so everyone can get inside. Then I'd pull down the wall, dump the embark items on a quantum stockpile in the 11x11 space, and get myself walled in. That'd leave me where I was on Granite 1st, just a level below ground.

Tried this with a Play Now. Was able to get away from the outside world by 13th Granite. The caverns were discovered at the start of Mid-Spring, but since I'm not ready to handle the thrall-creating smoke shrouding the site I think I'll just forcequit the unsaved fortress.

Were I to do this with an embark crammed with heavy raw items, I'd use a floor to seal off the dump shaft side of the U and a wall to seal off the other. That'd probably be a better idea anyway, since you'd only be mass-dumping once.

[Panando]

Once upon a time I embarked, de-constructed the wagon, and channelled the 5x5 block of items right down into the caverns.

Later the fortress fell. I reclaimed, and was delighted when the new wagon spawned at the bottom of the shaft, in the cavern.

[Mister Dirks]

But that doesn't allow wagons, though...

That's odd, I never have seen an actual caravan wagon, I always thought they were broken. I can trade with merchants normally though? O.O