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[dwarfhoplite]

I think building roofs for buildings should be easier than it currently is.
I suggest adding new type of construction, roof, which is similar to floor, except it can be built from a level below so ramps aren't needed.
Roof could be destroyable by trolls etc.

I don't think my suggestion for roof is too realistic or smart, but I really want building roofs for buildings to be made less complicated.
There's not much to say. I just wanted to generate conversation on this subject.

The dodging fix mentioned in the title is that creatures shouldn't dodge up a z-level. I have had aboveground buildings on which dwarfs had dodged and then starved because I had removed the ramps.

[Rakushun]

I think building roofs for buildings should be easier than it currently is.
I suggest adding new type of construction, roof, which is similar to floor, except it can be built from a level below so ramps aren't needed.
Roof could be destroyable by trolls etc.

I don't think my suggestion for roof is too realistic or smart, but I really want building roofs for buildings to be made less complicated.
There's not much to say. I just wanted to generate conversation on this subject.

The dodging fix mentioned in the title is that creatures shouldn't dodge up a z-level. I have had aboveground buildings on which dwarfs had dodged and then starved because I had removed the ramps.

Or we could just gain the ability to build floors from the level below.

[10ebbor10]

In both cases, that would be semidisastrous without modifying the dwarven AI. Say, you order a large floor to be build. Since dwarves can now reach it from below, they might start construction in the middle of the building, resulting in them flattening themselves.

Not a reason not to do it, but you still got to watch out with it.

[Trif]

Well, the z-level dodging is a bug, so that will be fixed in time.

About your roof suggestion... It seems too unrealistic for me. True, some methods of building in DF aren't exactly lifelike, e.g. building a staircase that's only supported from above; but I'm fairly sure that this will be impossible once we have rope ladders in the game.
A different non-sensical building thing is that (almost) every building is constructed with only one stone block. That's a simplification, because hauling a realistic amount of stones to build a ramp would be extremely annoying. Fortresses would be dominated by huge piles of bricks, and blocks as they are are already bad enough for the FPS.

So, to summarize so far: in my experience, if some aspect of Dwarf Fortress isn't very realistic, it's either because a more authentic way hasn't been implemented yet (it's a placeholder) or because it wouldn't be fun to play it (it's a simplification).

As you said, building roofs from below isn't too realistic. In fact, it's pretty much unimaginable, especially for short dwarfs and their stubby arms. Let's see if it would improve the game as a simplification of a real-world method.
If you want to build a roof in Dwarf Fortress right now, you build a ramp/staircase and designate the floors.
If your suggestion were to be implemented, we'd just skip the ramp/staircase part and designate the roof. So, effectively, you wouldn't have to build a ramp and your dwarfs were less exposed and less likely to fall.

And that's the problem that I have with your suggestion: it sacrifices too much realism for too little improvement. Building a ramp is trivial; and removing it doesn't make the process significantly easier.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Well, the z-level dodging is a bug, so that will be fixed in time.

Beat me to it.
Flying creatures and creatures on up-ramps (or adjacent to down-ramps or perhaps small ledges) should be able to change z-levels whilst dodging, but I digress.

About your roof suggestion... It seems too unrealistic for me. True, some methods of building in DF aren't exactly lifelike, e.g. building a staircase that's only supported from above; but I'm fairly sure that this will be impossible once we have rope ladders in the game.
A different non-sensical building thing is that (almost) every building is constructed with only one stone block. That's a simplification, because hauling a realistic amount of stones to build a ramp would be extremely annoying. Fortresses would be dominated by huge piles of bricks, and blocks as they are are already bad enough for the FPS.

The blocks are presumably a bunch of blocks, as designated by the name "blocks." Stones are probably a mix of a couple big boulders and a bunch of rubble.

So, to summarize so far: in my experience, if some aspect of Dwarf Fortress isn't very realistic, it's either because a more authentic way hasn't been implemented yet (it's a placeholder) or because it wouldn't be fun to play it (it's a simplification).

Well-put.

As you said, building roofs from below isn't too realistic. In fact, it's pretty much unimaginable, especially for short dwarfs and their stubby arms. Let's see if it would improve the game as a simplification of a real-world method.
If you want to build a roof in Dwarf Fortress right now, you build a ramp/staircase and designate the floors.

Indeed. Some way to make this clearer, and/or ladders (which could be put up faster than stairs or ramps) would help, though.

If your suggestion were to be implemented, we'd just skip the ramp/staircase part and designate the roof. So, effectively, you wouldn't have to build a ramp and your dwarfs were less exposed and less likely to fall.

Indeed.

And that's the problem that I have with your suggestion: it sacrifices too much realism for too little improvement. Building a ramp is trivial; and removing it doesn't make the process significantly easier.

Yeah, I agree.

About dwarves starting in the middle and flattening themselves: Dwarves don't build unsupported constructions now (except for the ones they think will be supported by bridges, but that's another bug), so why would they in the future?

[10ebbor10]

They don't?

It's been quite spome time since I played, and last time I had a serious problems with pumpsstacks collapsing because dwarves started to build in the middle.

[weenog]

Building roofs already isn't complicated.  This suggestion would not be a significant improvement, and as has already been pointed out, it hurts verisimilitude too much for such little benefit.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I suppose the vermilisitude factor would vary on how tall a z-level is, but as dragons and humans can walk down one-level-tall corridors just fine, I doubt that it would be that easy for dwarves to reach the top from inside.