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[Domenique]

No matter how progressive some of us might be, there is still a fine line between masculine and feminine behaviour, it simply defines who we are. Even our brains function differently, and I think this is the cause of the border between the two sexes. Personally, If I saw a feminine guy I would have nothing against him, but I can't say that I would enjoy socializing with him as much as with a guy who's more on the masculine side. I think that the extreme macho is stupid, but there should be some line. I.E. just a few days ago I was talking to a girl friend of mine and she told me that her friend's classmate is chatting with her about how he is crying and not going out of his room because he can't hook up with the friend in question. If he was a girl, it would seem normal to me to some degree, but an 18 y.o. acting like that doesn't score points in my book. The idea itself of being hurt for a person you didn't even once met with seems silly to me, let alone talking about that to her friend that you barely know. Maybe I'm slightly a biggot. Masculine girls don't seem to bother me though.

[kaijyuu]

Yeah you've got some double standards going on there.


And feminine guys are awesome. Most likely ones I'd like to date, personally

[Eagle_eye]

...that would not seem like normal behavior for anyone at that age.

[kaijyuu]

At 18? Doesn't sound that weird to me. Not everyone dates a lot in their teens, and first big crushes getting rejected can be rather devastating.

[GlyphGryph]

Domeniqur, the problem is this:

"Masculine" guy or "feminine" guy is fucking bullshit. A guy is a guy - they can have masculine or feminine appearances, hobbies, interests, or behaviours, but since you can have any combination of those along with their exact opposite, referring to a guy as masculine or feminine in and of itself is absurd.

So tell me, which of the following is more masculine:
A burly guy with a handlebar mustache who spends a lot of his freetime on his motorcycle or fixing it or improving it, but also enjoys watching My Little Pony and sewing his own clothes and making cookies.
OR
The skinny guy in tight jeans with long hair who wears make-up, that plays in an 80s tribute band, and enjoys hunting and target shooting when he's not making music.

Which would be more masculine, and thus be a guy you'd be more interested in socializing with?
(Both are examples pulled from real life, btw)



And all of this is completely removed from your second point, that being some assumed connectivity between "feminine" and "pathetically juvenile". Which is just, like... wuh? Okay, yeah, you may be more ready to forgive girls for acting pathetically juvenile, but that doesn't exactly make the act feminine.

Mind you, we probably all end up acting a bit pathetic and juvenile now and again...

[Lord Dullard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dJY-XZIn_8

[Domenique]

Domeniqur, the problem is this:

"Masculine" guy or "feminine" guy is fucking bullshit. A guy is a guy - they can have masculine or feminine appearances, hobbies, interests, or behaviours, but since you can have any combination of those along with their exact opposite, referring to a guy as masculine or feminine in and of itself is absurd.

So tell me, which of the following is more masculine:
A burly guy with a handlebar mustache who spends a lot of his freetime on his motorcycle or fixing it or improving it, but also enjoys watching My Little Pony and sewing his own clothes and making cookies.
OR
The skinny guy in tight jeans with long hair who wears make-up, that plays in an 80s tribute band, and enjoys hunting and target shooting when he's not making music.

Which would be more masculine, and thus be a guy you'd be more interested in socializing with?
(Both are examples pulled from real life, btw)

And all of this is completely removed from your second point, that being some assumed connectivity between "feminine" and "pathetically juvenile". Which is just, like... wuh? Okay, yeah, you may be more ready to forgive girls for acting pathetically juvenile, but that doesn't exactly make the act feminine.

Mind you, we probably all end up acting a bit pathetic and juvenile now and again...

It's a false dilema, I wouldn't socialize with neither of them (not into motorcycles). I don't consider owning a motorcycle or playing old music in a band neither masculine nor feminine, I consider actions and choices masculine and feminine, not hobbies.

And yes, I am willing to forgive girls for being pathetic, it's just how I was brought up, never just watch a girl crying, whatever the reason. I know this is what you would call double standarts, but we all have them.

I know we all end up like that, the point is how we do that. When I had my first bad breakup I came back home, destroyed some random house plant and went to bed, sobbing and listening to Bob Dylan whole night, I was very weak and vulnerable, which goes without saying. And if I hadn't threw my cellphone into water because of the rage, I would've probably called her all night. The next day I stayed at my best friend's and talked about her whole day. But I was sixteen, I learned from my mistakes and went on a way to become a man, who should control his temper and emotional exposure. I consider 18 y.o. already a man, who should know these things (I am referring to the guy I was talking about before). Again, I'm a biggot on these things.

[kaijyuu]

Sounds like you've got some cognitive dissonance (unless you don't care about being "bigoted" or not). Rather than point out the silliness in your post, I'll just suggest you resolve that before judging anyone.

[Sergius]

Beards. Beards are manly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taLMdb9-A4E

[Wayward Device]

In the vain of "pink used to be manly" and the like, it might interest you to know a little something about the  1965 film "The Ipcress File" with Michael Caine. It's the first film where a man cooks for a woman. The studio was originally very worried about the film because the hero already wore glasses (meaning he was a sissy/intellectual). If people saw him cooking for a woman then they would assume he was gay.   

Also, going to a much more ancient example that I'm sure most people are aware of, in Ancient Greece a non bisexual man would be open to the kind of mocking to his masculinity that, say ,a modern western male 20 something virgin bisexual might be.   

[Pnx]

I personally find I'm a lot happier if I don't bother with all this masculinity vs femininity stuff. There's a whole culture where you're supposed to broadcast your sexuality based on how masculine or feminine you act, and it's complete bullshit. You shouldn't have to go around proving your sexuality with your behaviour and personally, I don't.

[GlyphGryph]

It's a false dilema, I wouldn't socialize with neither of them (not into motorcycles). I don't consider owning a motorcycle or playing old music in a band neither masculine nor feminine, I consider actions and choices masculine and feminine, not hobbies.

So it's not the things people do, it's... the things people do?

I'm sorry, you're just not making any sense at all here.

So you thinking watching shows about teenage princesses or playing house with dolls or dressing in pink frilly dresses... none of these would be feminine?
While playing with toy trucks, doing construction work, etc., none of those would be masculine?

Then what exactly is your criteria for masculine/feminine? "actions and choices"? What does that even /mean/?

[Askot Bokbondeler]

It's a false dilema, I wouldn't socialize with neither of them (not into motorcycles). I don't consider owning a motorcycle or playing old music in a band neither masculine nor feminine, I consider actions and choices masculine and feminine, not hobbies.

So it's not the things people do, it's... the things people do?

I'm sorry, you're just not making any sense at all here.

So you thinking watching shows about teenage princesses or playing house with dolls or dressing in pink frilly dresses... none of these would be feminine?
While playing with toy trucks, doing construction work, etc., none of those would be masculine?

Then what exactly is your criteria for masculine/feminine? "actions and choices"? What does that even /mean/?

if you're stoic and awesome and everything positive, youre manly. if you're bitchy, weak and stupid, youre feminine

[Alastar]

There isn't really any difference in what behaviour I find acceptable, sex/gender is incidental. I get exasperated with people who exaggerate emotional displays to get their way and still feel a little awkward if they're sincere. I despise bullying. Violence is a serious matter and worthy of a severe reaction. Bawdiness needs to be paired with wit, and even then it gets tiring after a while. Expecting superficial "loyalty" when one is in the wrong is an unreasonable demand. I have little patience for people who take their impressions for unquestionable reality.
Some annoyances come up more often with men, some with women, some equally but in different forms.

On the whole I get along best with people who don't conform to the usual gender roles. Partially because I find the stereotypical extremes a little silly, partially because they're more likely to be themselves. That said, manly men and womanly women occasionally surprise me by being absolutely awesome in a way I could never be.

One thing that struck me is that some gender-typical behaviour tends to get disregarded. From my experience, men tend to be more prone to nostalgia and retrospection (but it doesn't fit the aggressive & emotionally stunted brutes we're supposed to be) and women to be harsher and more uncompromising once someone is branded as an enemy (but doesn't fit their role as dainty and somewhat useless decorations).

[Domenique]

It's a false dilema, I wouldn't socialize with neither of them (not into motorcycles). I don't consider owning a motorcycle or playing old music in a band neither masculine nor feminine, I consider actions and choices masculine and feminine, not hobbies.

So it's not the things people do, it's... the things people do?

I'm sorry, you're just not making any sense at all here.

So you thinking watching shows about teenage princesses or playing house with dolls or dressing in pink frilly dresses... none of these would be feminine?
While playing with toy trucks, doing construction work, etc., none of those would be masculine?

Then what exactly is your criteria for masculine/feminine? "actions and choices"? What does that even /mean/?

if you're stoic and awesome and everything positive, youre manly. if you're bitchy, weak and stupid, youre feminine

Not in that way, I'll just refrain from participating in this discussion because I sometimes find it really hard to say what I think and people misunderstand me and it hits the fan.