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[crazysheep]

Anyway, how many dwarves have you seen die of old age anyway. It's not like it's a common occurence.

Depends on how you run your forts, I've managed to see my dwarves die of old age.

[GreatWyrmGold]

So, legendary workers turning into more lazy demanding nobles.  For the sake of verisimilitude, when it actually goes against verisimilitude.  Where was the up side?

...You know, while that wasn't my intent, I can see where you're coming from. I was just listing off a bunch of stuff that could happen as dwarves age. I certainly didn't mean to imply that all of that happens to every dwarf over the age of 50.

Old people teach children, dont they? Atleast the ones where I live do.
-Edit-
"Happy to be lectured by a elder recently."
"Unhappy to be bored by a elder recently."
-
"Angered by a unruly child recently."
"Happy to see the youth at work."

Good idea.

Dwarfs retire? Not likely. Its not that they could not. Its just that they would not want to.
Dwarfs love working. I cant imagine them not wanting to work.

I can imagine them not being able to work. After all, in our modern day and age, with our advanced medicine, the body really starts deteriorating before most reach 60. With dwarves, between their more limited medical skills, more strenuous lifestyle, poorer diet (probably), lower vitamin D intake, and so forth, these issues would arise more and earlier (unless dwarves are supposed to live longer thn humans...although, human lifespans are a bit long in DF for medieval times). Just adding something to simulate like lowering speed and physical attributes gradually once a creature reaches about the halfway point in its maximum lifespan? would help these issues. Of course, there would also need to be some AI changes to elderly dwarves, like trying to pass on their knowledge, to balance out this and other disadvantages to the elderly. While they might sleep longer and take more breaks, the elderly might talk to people around them when they're not working, raising the listeners' skills; ideally, idlers related to or friends with the senior (or bored ones) would actively try to listen. Letting an old, retired axedwarf relax in the meeting hall and talk about his career in wax working and how he got drafted might mean children grow up as wax workers and/or with axedwarf and other combat skills! How is that not great?

Anyway, how many dwarves have you seen die of old age anyway. It's not like it's a common occurence.

Depends on how you run your forts, I've managed to see my dwarves die of old age.

Certainly, they should. Eventually. Once/If we get dwarven forts to not fall in under a decade to various causes. Especially since few people IRL reach "max age" before succumbing to some age-related complication (cancer, arthritis, alzheimers, etc), especially in ages where these conditions didn't lead to special care.
Certainly, things like this should be considered in worldgen.

[Naryar]

Pointless idea. Not only retirement is a modern idea, but dwarves are craftsmen and should only retire if they are too weak to work.

And yes, more noble-like useless dwarves to care about = more annoyance.

I am all for modeling the physical decay brought by old age in DF though.

[Glyndŵr]

Pointless idea. Not only retirement is a modern idea, but dwarves are craftsmen and should only retire if they are too weak to work.

And yes, more noble-like useless dwarves to care about = more annoyance.

I am all for modeling the physical decay brought by old age in DF though.

I think the decay should be such that your strongest, most agile and tough warrior would still be far tougher than other elderly people when he is in his very old age, but not stronger or tougher than a younger soldier. It means that elderly dwarfs won't end up all the same.

[Itsdavyjones]

Pointless idea. Not only retirement is a modern idea, but dwarves are craftsmen and should only retire if they are too weak to work.

And yes, more noble-like useless dwarves to care about = more annoyance.

I am all for modeling the physical decay brought by old age in DF though.

I think the decay should be such that your strongest, most agile and tough warrior would still be far tougher than other elderly people when he is in his very old age, but not stronger or tougher than a younger soldier. It means that elderly dwarfs won't end up all the same.

That I do like, because some dwarfs that do nothing but crafting would have bad hands due to arthritis and the like, where a miner would still be strong, but not as.

[crazysheep]

Anyway, how many dwarves have you seen die of old age anyway. It's not like it's a common occurence.

Depends on how you run your forts, I've managed to see my dwarves die of old age.

Certainly, they should. Eventually. Once/If we get dwarven forts to not fall in under a decade to various causes. Especially since few people IRL reach "max age" before succumbing to some age-related complication (cancer, arthritis, alzheimers, etc), especially in ages where these conditions didn't lead to special care.
Certainly, things like this should be considered in worldgen.

I'm not sure, but it feels like things like natural death get considered during worldgen.
Also, peaceful forts in Calm/Low Evil regions should tend to see more natural deaths. Even if there are regular goblin invasions.

[Splint]

The problem of course is natural deaths are rare in fort mode period due to mining accidents, general carelessness, project accidents, drowning accidents on embark in cooler climates... The list goes on and on at what can kill a dwarf besides goblins, and many are the result of carelessness on our part. Or litarally not giving two shits about thier lives, as some of the more insane engineer-overlords have a penchent for.

[Naryar]

You do not care about your original seven ? YOU MONSTER 

Also - dwarves are fond of industry. It's in their description. Retirement at a certain age because you're supposedly too old to work is a human idea. Why would dwarves retire unless physically/mentally forced to ?

[Splint]

I care about the first year's dwarves, but eventually I lose track of everyone but the miners and starting metalworker I bring. And I don't think "Killed by flooding magma" or "Killed by poorly trained gorilla" count as industry.... Though i guess the former could be part of an industrial accident.

[crazysheep]

I care about the first year's dwarves, but eventually I lose track of everyone but the miners and starting metalworker I bring. And I don't think "Killed by flooding magma" or "Killed by poorly trained gorilla" count as industry.... Though i guess the former could be part of an industrial accident.

Mining industry -> flooding magma is a hazard, so yes, industrial accident
Animal training/Trapping industry -> handling dangerous creatures is a major workplace hazard, so yes, also counts as industrial accident

Similar arguments could be used for metalworkers dying to magma crabs, or brewers dying from stills blowing up.

[Splint]

So.... Wait, getting killed is required in industry? I thought the goal was to make stuff not get killed doing your job. Unless your soldier, then that's an expected hazard. (I'm being... what the word... Not sarcastic but not serious.)

When I said Industry though I meant what would be considered industrial (such as working with magma and metal or mass production of wood-based products.) Oddly enough I think beekeeping is probably the safest job ever next to farming in DF. Unless for some reason the bees decide to rebel or the overseer forgot to put up a wall.... Ok, so I got sued by some dorfs for workplace negligence on that one, bite me!

[GreatWyrmGold]

Anyway, how many dwarves have you seen die of old age anyway. It's not like it's a common occurence.

Depends on how you run your forts, I've managed to see my dwarves die of old age.

Certainly, they should. Eventually. Once/If we get dwarven forts to not fall in under a decade to various causes. Especially since few people IRL reach "max age" before succumbing to some age-related complication (cancer, arthritis, alzheimers, etc), especially in ages where these conditions didn't lead to special care.
Certainly, things like this should be considered in worldgen.

I'm not sure, but it feels like things like natural death get considered during worldgen.
Also, peaceful forts in Calm/Low Evil regions should tend to see more natural deaths. Even if there are regular goblin invasions.

I'm not sure, but the fact that humans can live to over a hundred fairly frequently, barring wars or famines, seems to suggest against that.
And, while I can see fewer violent deaths in calm or good regions, death by predatory beasts is far from the leading cause of death in DF. It ranks right above old age and right below KBB. More dwarves are killed each year by marauding kobold thieves than by wolves, although certain scavangers stealing food isn't uncommon. My point is, while natural deaths from entirely natural causes should happen, in DF's world, "natural" deaths (e.g. "One quite naturally dies when a goblin sticks a scimitar into a vital organ") complicated by natural causes (e.g. joint issues impacting agility) would be more common.

[Varjo]

Yup. It would be new challenge to organize elderly care and proper treatment.

Moral questions, would you use legendary surgeon to help aged heroic commanders or let them die because you wanted to heal working class.

[Splint]

Since I have a deep-seated respect for veterans..... I'd have to say Urist McHauler can go screw. I'd rather have my dwarves disturbed by my Militia Commander's laughter as he recounts that time he bisected two goblins and strangled a kobold while he bit its arm off.

And in DF, you gotta respect veterans. How the hell they managed to live to even become infirm enough to be more of a liability would be a stunning achievment. Although a super active dwarf, like a solider or mason who has to lug heavy stones around constantly probably wouldn't have too many issues in the DF world. I've got a married couple of humans who're in keel over dead territory (mid 80s!) who chopped a goblin siege to ribbons. With freaking copper swords no less. Hell they weren't bugged in the slightest when a ghost scared a 16 year to death in front of them. Bah, I'm ranting. A slow physical stat decline for dwarves in thier 130s on would probably be good to simulate it (dwarves can live between 150 and 175, barring "fun.") since earrlier would hurt your starters a little bit if it were in thier 70s or 80s, since that's middleaged for dwarves. Comparitivly, humans got a max of 120, also barring battledeaths or other things and thier middle aged is of course at late 20s to early 40s (one of my founders was 28, the oldest was 43.)

[Corai]

Since I have a deep-seated respect for veterans..... I'd have to say Urist McHauler can go screw. I'd rather have my dwarves disturbed by my Militia Commander's laughter as he recounts that time he bisected two goblins and strangled a kobold while he bit its arm off.

And in DF, you gotta respect veterans. How the hell they managed to live to even become infirm enough to be more of a liability would be a stunning achievment. Although a super active dwarf, like a solider or mason who has to lug heavy stones around constantly probably wouldn't have too many issues in the DF world. I've got a married couple of humans who're in keel over dead territory (mid 80s!) who chopped a goblin siege to ribbons. With freaking copper swords no less. Hell they weren't bugged in the slightest when a ghost scared a 16 year to death in front of them. Bah, I'm ranting. A slow physical stat decline for dwarves in thier 130s on would probably be good to simulate it (dwarves can live between 150 and 175, barring "fun.") since earrlier would hurt your starters a little bit if it were in thier 70s or 80s, since that's middleaged for dwarves. Comparitivly, humans got a max of 120, also barring battledeaths or other things and thier middle aged is of course at late 20s to early 40s (one of my founders was 28, the oldest was 43.)

Humans-Retire into a form of nobility.

Elves-Lay down near a tree and slit there throat once unable to work, letting the tree feast on the nutrient filled corpse.

Dwarves-WORK UNTIL DEATH.

Kobolds-Nom nom yummy old guy.

Goblin-Nom nom yummy old guy.


Thats how I think retirement should work.