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[Mrhappyface]

"Urist, whose brain is this?"

[dizzyelk]

"Urist, whose brain is this?"

"Yarare... something... Yarare Vinithosidaya"

"Yarare... wait! AN ELVEN BRAIN!? YOU PUT AN ELVEN BRAIN IN MY CREATION!?"

[Carp McDwarfEater]

Why would you want to need to command medical dwarves to do their jobs?

As for goblins:

Code: [Select]

[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:UNTHINKABLE]
That sounds like torture for fun (unthinkable), or maybe for (medical) information (unthinkable). Dwarves aren't into that stuff.

The one fortress where I had a Chief Medical Dwarf that actually did his job was the one with the worst medical system. Why? Whenever a military dwarf got injured, the Chief Medical Dwarf would clean, dress, and suture them all in one go, which resulted in them bleeding to death more often than not. If I could tell the moronic dwarf to just suture the wounds one at a time, maybe the poor soldier wouldn't have bled so much.

Then suggest that medics gain the intelligence to do things intelligently. Don't make us all do more micromanagement.

I was adding to OP, which suggests there be an OPTION to control medical dwarves. Before zealously attacking an idea for fear that it will cause a tiny bit more micromanagement, READ THE OP.

As in for ethics, Toady could just change them if he wants. Problem solved.

Those are the ethics Toady wants dwarves to have, so he DOESN'T want to. Problem NOT solved.

I don't think Toady needs you to make opinions for him. And correct me if I'm wrong, but he's never came straight-out and said that he doesn't believe dwarves should do that stuff. Besides, he could change it with no consequence. Ethics are never stated in-game. I suspect they only exist to determine the likelihood of war between races, and not as some placeholder for something actually meaningful.

Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell.
Anyways, big issues. Dwarves die when cut in half and horses die when decapitated. So, those would need to be completely different things from normal medical work, or at least would have absolutely no concievable purpose that doesn't violate dwarven ethics until such mad science is implemented.

Dwarf Fortress isn't totally realistic. It has werebeasts, vampires, and necromancers. Frankensteins wouldn't be that much out of place.

First off, "some magical elements" doesn't mean "bye-bye, common sense!" Second off, I was describing current behavior in DF. Third off, I was just saying that stuff like that would be more than normal surgery. Fourth off, FRANKENSTEIN WAS THE GUY WHO CREATED THE MONSTER. Fifth off, AS I MENTIONED ABOVE, IT WAS NOT MADE FROM DEAD BODY PARTS.
...
INITIALLY.

You were saying that it was too unrealistic to be in the game, or something along those lines. And you know what I meant. Whenever someone says Frankenstein, they're referring to the monster, not the Doctor.

[GreatWyrmGold]

What I said was that it went beyond the realm of mere surgery, mere medicine. Stitching parts of two disparate corpses into one and making a living creature is more than any mere doctor can do. It takes a necromancer working with a surgeon, or else a mad scientist.

And yes, I know I know you know that Frankenstein isn't the name of the monster, but it bugs me.

[Footkerchief]

As shown by a search for "surgery", this is a popular suggestion:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99332.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78514.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=103337.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64727.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=54019.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=55679.0

Spoiler: tags (click to show/hide)

surgeon surgeons surgery command order direct torture practice train learn improve skill punish punishment dissect dissection experiment experiments experimental experimentation

[Mrhappyface]

Nice to know, Footkerchief. Hopefully, this popular request will be fulfilled in the near future.

[Mrhappyface]

Nice to know, Footkerchief. Hopefully, this popular request will be fulfilled in the near future.

[UHaulDwarf]

As shown by a search for "surgery", this is a popular suggestion:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99332.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78514.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=103337.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64727.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=54019.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=55679.0

Spoiler: tags (click to show/hide)

surgeon surgeons surgery command order direct torture practice train learn improve skill punish punishment dissect dissection experiment experiments experimental experimentation

I cheeked out your list Footkerchief, and only one* of the links was relevant to the OP.
* http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99332.0

[Footkerchief]

I cheeked out your list Footkerchief, and only one* of the links was relevant to the OP.
* http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99332.0

Nope.  5 of the 6 are directly relevant to the OP -- the one you mentioned, plus:

Have an animal stockpile overrun by caged Elven merchants and goblin invaders? Have a bone setter who cant tell the difference between a broken leg and a bruised brain?   Two sad sad problems with one happy solution,  a job that can be dedicated to a caged, non-pet animal/prisoner, "Perform experimental surgery"  in which case your haulers would drag it down to an empty traction bench and strap it down,  and your Medical team would proceed to practice their craft repeatedly on the volunteer untill it is either re assigned to a cage or stops breathing.  The medical team gets rapid skill ups from the educational experiment, and you free up a cage to catch something else.

- For the more sadistic players, it could be nice to have their doctors be allowed to "experiment" on trapped animals or goblins. (Or at least practice dissection on corpses, as they did in antiquity and middle-age, so they would get better in all medical skills).

2. the player could schedule dwarves for surgery to their specifications. In addition to clearing up a lot of the bugs wherein injured dwarves aren't treated, this would allow players with a more radical bent to schedule their military dwarves to have their body fat and extraneous organs removed so they'd move faster, or perhaps have their sensory nerves removed to make them immune to pain.

Why not institute a system where they can practice on corpses?

Or, if we're talking evil- and when aren't we- captured enemies?

And the 6th, I included because of all the Frankenstein discussion in this thread:

It would be pretty cool to have some ungodly frankenstien... THING that was basically a dwarf with higher DAM_BLOCK and some jacked up appearance details.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Two things about that last quote.

1. What's DAM_BLOCK? I don't think I've ever seen that tag (I started playing in 0.31.16 and didn't really start modding until around 0.31.20-something).
2. Why does everyone call the monster Frankenstein? I know you were referring to the doctor, Footkerchief, but the guy you quoted wasn't. It just gets on my nerves that something that blatently wrong, and not even very unknownly so, gets used so much.

[Carp McDwarfEater]

So what then should we call the monster, O great and wise one?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Frankenstein's Monster works well. And lay off the sarcasm, if you wouldn't mind; rudeness is another of my pet peeves.

[Footkerchief]

1. What's DAM_BLOCK? I don't think I've ever seen that tag (I started playing in 0.31.16 and didn't really start modding until around 0.31.20-something).

DAMBLOCK is a creature token that was removed after 40d.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Ah. That explains a lot. Thanks!

[UHaulDwarf]

I cheeked out your list Footkerchief, and only one* of the links was relevant to the OP.
* http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99332.0

Nope.  5 of the 6 are directly relevant to the OP -- the one you mentioned, plus:

Have an animal stockpile overrun by caged Elven merchants and goblin invaders? Have a bone setter who cant tell the difference between a broken leg and a bruised brain?   Two sad sad problems with one happy solution,  a job that can be dedicated to a caged, non-pet animal/prisoner, "Perform experimental surgery"  in which case your haulers would drag it down to an empty traction bench and strap it down,  and your Medical team would proceed to practice their craft repeatedly on the volunteer untill it is either re assigned to a cage or stops breathing.  The medical team gets rapid skill ups from the educational experiment, and you free up a cage to catch something else.

- For the more sadistic players, it could be nice to have their doctors be allowed to "experiment" on trapped animals or goblins. (Or at least practice dissection on corpses, as they did in antiquity and middle-age, so they would get better in all medical skills).

2. the player could schedule dwarves for surgery to their specifications. In addition to clearing up a lot of the bugs wherein injured dwarves aren't treated, this would allow players with a more radical bent to schedule their military dwarves to have their body fat and extraneous organs removed so they'd move faster, or perhaps have their sensory nerves removed to make them immune to pain.

Why not institute a system where they can practice on corpses?

Or, if we're talking evil- and when aren't we- captured enemies?

And the 6th, I included because of all the Frankenstein discussion in this thread:

It would be pretty cool to have some ungodly frankenstien... THING that was basically a dwarf with higher DAM_BLOCK and some jacked up appearance details.

Here is the OP:

I want player directed surgery as an option. Removing flesh, applying sutures, and fixing fractures as specific commands. Or as punishment or torture for goblins.

OK it does mention torture witch is mentioned in the posts you put up but none of them talked about having the player direct surgery.(Other then that one.)