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[Mrhappyface]

I want player directed surgery as an option. Removing flesh, applying sutures, and fixing fractures as specific commands. Or as punishment or torture for goblins.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Why would you want to need to command medical dwarves to do their jobs?

As for goblins:

Code: [Select]

[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:UNTHINKABLE]
That sounds like torture for fun (unthinkable), or maybe for (medical) information (unthinkable). Dwarves aren't into that stuff.

[Graknorke]

I think torture for information means "Beating them 'til they talks", rather than medical research.

But yeah, Dwarves don't torture to make examples of enemies, and medical research isn't really s thing they need. All good dwarvern doctors know that removing vital organs assists the healing of broken bones.

[dizzyelk]

Just think, if we could direct our dwarves to cut a dwarf in half and chop the head off a horse, then sew the two together, we could create dwartaurs! It would be a majestic new age in dwarven genetics! The elves would learn to fear the clop of our dwartaurian armies marching (trotting?) forth!

[Mrhappyface]

If I remember Toady is planning on adding Frankenstein-esque monters. Look at the wiki page for night creatures.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Just think, if we could direct our dwarves to cut a dwarf in half and chop the head off a horse, then sew the two together, we could create dwartaurs! It would be a majestic new age in dwarven genetics! The elves would learn to fear the clop of our dwartaurian armies marching (trotting?) forth!

Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell.
Anyways, big issues. Dwarves die when cut in half and horses die when decapitated. So, those would need to be completely different things from normal medical work, or at least would have absolutely no concievable purpose that doesn't violate dwarven ethics until such mad science is implemented.

And, just to point out, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein's monster was not sewn together from corpses. It might have had some bits from corpses (including animal ones!), but overall it's implied that the process was more alchemal in nature. This seems better for dwarves--nothing like that nasty, unthinkable torture involved.

[kilakan]

Just think, if we could direct our dwarves to cut a dwarf in half and chop the head off a horse, then sew the two together, we could create dwartaurs! It would be a majestic new age in dwarven genetics! The elves would learn to fear the clop of our dwartaurian armies marching (trotting?) forth!

For some strange reason I pictured the top of the dwarf and the horses body being discarded and the horse head sewn on the dwarf body...

[weenog]

Just think, if we could direct our dwarves to cut a dwarf in half and chop the head off a horse, then sew the two together, we could create dwartaurs! It would be a majestic new age in dwarven genetics! The elves would learn to fear the clop of our dwartaurian armies marching (trotting?) forth!

For some strange reason I pictured the top of the dwarf and the horses body being discarded and the horse head sewn on the dwarf body...

Both tops discarded and the bottoms sewn together at the wet ends sounds more likely.  Sure he's blind, but hey, Legendary Kicker.

[dizzyelk]

Just think, if we could direct our dwarves to cut a dwarf in half and chop the head off a horse, then sew the two together, we could create dwartaurs! It would be a majestic new age in dwarven genetics! The elves would learn to fear the clop of our dwartaurian armies marching (trotting?) forth!

Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell.
Anyways, big issues. Dwarves die when cut in half and horses die when decapitated. So, those would need to be completely different things from normal medical work, or at least would have absolutely no concievable purpose that doesn't violate dwarven ethics until such mad science is implemented.

And, just to point out, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein's monster was not sewn together from corpses. It might have had some bits from corpses (including animal ones!), but overall it's implied that the process was more alchemal in nature. This seems better for dwarves--nothing like that nasty, unthinkable torture involved.

You caught me, I was just poking fun. However, being able to make a Frankenstein's monster equivalent would be pretty spectacular. Face off goblin sieges with reanimated goblins.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Especially if we could make the original, what the movies made it out to be, and anything it between. Or anything else we could imagine, like golems. Or the corpse of a giant war tiger, who had its head and foreleg torn off by a dragon, with a dying master marksdwarf and an iron foreleg attatched to make a mighty warrior...

[Carp McDwarfEater]

Why would you want to need to command medical dwarves to do their jobs?

As for goblins:

Code: [Select]

[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:UNTHINKABLE]
That sounds like torture for fun (unthinkable), or maybe for (medical) information (unthinkable). Dwarves aren't into that stuff.

The one fortress where I had a Chief Medical Dwarf that actually did his job was the one with the worst medical system. Why? Whenever a military dwarf got injured, the Chief Medical Dwarf would clean, dress, and suture them all in one go, which resulted in them bleeding to death more often than not. If I could tell the moronic dwarf to just suture the wounds one at a time, maybe the poor soldier wouldn't have bled so much.

As in for ethics, Toady could just change them if he wants. Problem solved.

Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell.
Anyways, big issues. Dwarves die when cut in half and horses die when decapitated. So, those would need to be completely different things from normal medical work, or at least would have absolutely no concievable purpose that doesn't violate dwarven ethics until such mad science is implemented.

Dwarf Fortress isn't totally realistic. It has werebeasts, vampires, and necromancers. Frankensteins wouldn't be that much out of place.

[Graknorke]

We already HAVE doctor Frankensteins. See basically every dwarf doctor ever. "Your toe is broken? OUT WITH THAT LUNG!". You can see the desperate frustration in their enthusiasm to cause bloodloss.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Why would you want to need to command medical dwarves to do their jobs?

As for goblins:

Code: [Select]

[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:UNTHINKABLE]
That sounds like torture for fun (unthinkable), or maybe for (medical) information (unthinkable). Dwarves aren't into that stuff.

The one fortress where I had a Chief Medical Dwarf that actually did his job was the one with the worst medical system. Why? Whenever a military dwarf got injured, the Chief Medical Dwarf would clean, dress, and suture them all in one go, which resulted in them bleeding to death more often than not. If I could tell the moronic dwarf to just suture the wounds one at a time, maybe the poor soldier wouldn't have bled so much.

Then suggest that medics gain the intelligence to do things intelligently. Don't make us all do more micromanagement.

As in for ethics, Toady could just change them if he wants. Problem solved.

Those are the ethics Toady wants dwarves to have, so he DOESN'T want to. Problem NOT solved.

Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell.
Anyways, big issues. Dwarves die when cut in half and horses die when decapitated. So, those would need to be completely different things from normal medical work, or at least would have absolutely no concievable purpose that doesn't violate dwarven ethics until such mad science is implemented.

Dwarf Fortress isn't totally realistic. It has werebeasts, vampires, and necromancers. Frankensteins wouldn't be that much out of place.

First off, "some magical elements" doesn't mean "bye-bye, common sense!" Second off, I was describing current behavior in DF. Third off, I was just saying that stuff like that would be more than normal surgery. Fourth off, FRANKENSTEIN WAS THE GUY WHO CREATED THE MONSTER. Fifth off, AS I MENTIONED ABOVE, IT WAS NOT MADE FROM DEAD BODY PARTS.
...
INITIALLY.

We already HAVE doctor Frankensteins. See basically every dwarf doctor ever. "Your toe is broken? OUT WITH THAT LUNG!". You can see the desperate frustration in their enthusiasm to cause bloodloss.

That was due to stupidity, not bloodthirst. Once dwarves learn enough anatomy to tell the difference between a broken toe and a rotten lung, they do their jobs a lot better.

[dizzyelk]

We already HAVE doctor Frankensteins. See basically every dwarf doctor ever. "Your toe is broken? OUT WITH THAT LUNG!". You can see the desperate frustration in their enthusiasm to cause bloodloss.

I'd love to read a Dwarven medical text. "Inside the body cavity (plate AH12) you will find many organs. The great Armok bestowed these organs on dwarves so that they may vomit in rage at the sight of the daystar. Feel free to remove them."

And it always annoys me for some reason when people refer to the monster as a Frankenstein.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Again, those medical texts would actually warn dwarves about which organs are not the cause of broken toes. They might also say something like "This organ is important, but rot hurts more than if you take it out. If nothing else, you'll end the dwarf's suffering faster, and it'll be okay to toss him in a coffin to stop the smell."

It also bugs me when people talk about Frankenstein as the monster, as well as when they say it's made out of corpses. (Read the book, anyone who thinks I'm crazy.)