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Author Topic: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user  (Read 4215 times)

Zeebie

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Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« on: June 08, 2012, 10:38:36 am »

Among the dodge, shield use, and armor use skills, which is the most important for a dwarf's survival?  If you had the option to crank up the training on just one, which would you pick?
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TurkeyXIII

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2012, 10:48:21 am »

If there's room to dodge, dodge.  If not, shield.*  Armor use only affects how fast they can run with armor.

*This is my suspicions, unsure how effective they are overall.
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DTF

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 10:48:39 am »

Although they are all important, I'd say shield user. Even shields made of soap will block dragon fire, etc.
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Garath

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2012, 11:41:10 am »

and shields don't make you dodge off cliffs or into pools. Armor user can be very important for dwarfs, since slow movement can be a killer
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Fredd

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2012, 12:50:08 pm »

Shields are better, but do not forget that a good weapon skill  can aid in parrying also
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Maynot

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2012, 01:11:38 pm »

Shield > Dodge > Armor Use

In some previous versions, if you had enough skill (2000+) and enough shields in hand (20+), you could block all falling damage from any height.  This is the best defense against bolts and arrows.  Shields can nullify any and all damage except if you get set on fire.

Dodge helps you passively and actively avoid attacks.  I have observed this during Armor/Shield/Fighting training on random critters.  As dodge goes up, you get hit less often even with dodge preferences set to 'Stand Your Ground'.  Dodging is useful against archers as long as you don't dodge into a space where the shot is headed.  Also, be careful around ledges and magma pools.

Armor Use helps you move around better in armor.  It also increases damage reduction to some nominal degree.  Armor acts like a tough thick layer against many attacks.  Blunt force impacts and whips tend to make armor less useful.  Arrow and bolts also have high potential to penetrate armor.
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guitarxe

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2012, 01:26:38 pm »

20+ shields? You can set your dwarves to carry that many? Really?
And how do you set their "dodge preference"? I've never heard of that before...
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WealthyRadish

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2012, 01:28:54 pm »

He's talking about adventure mode.
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Maynot

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2012, 01:34:34 pm »

To get 20 shields in your hand(s), pick up the shields and you get them in your backpack.  Press 'r' to remove all of them from your backpack.  Now you are holding 20 shields in your hand(s).  You can do it with weapons as well.  It is considered a bug/exploit.

I have also noticed that in Fort mode where a military dwarf lost the use of one hand/arm but still carried around both his weapon and shield.
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Sutremaine

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2012, 09:58:48 pm »

Just one, based on my personal opinion? Armour User, unless they're wearing adamantine from head to toe. Then, Shield User.

I've only just noticed how slow dwarves can be in full armour. (I might remove some of their gear so they can train quicker, since movement speed is tied to the speed of everything else a dwarf does.)
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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2012, 10:50:10 pm »

Be aware that since movement speed and attack speed are the same, dwarves with high armor user will also attack more often.
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TerryDactyl

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2012, 12:13:18 am »

Be aware that since movement speed and attack speed are the same, dwarves with high armor user will also attack more often.

if they're wearing armour.

i2amroy

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2012, 12:22:02 am »

If it was a dwarf with no training at all wearing full armor then I would say shield=armor>dodge, since heavy armor can slow a dwarf down a fair amount. After a military dwarf has had some training they all tend to eventually become strong enough that armor weight is fairly irrelevant, meaning shield>dodge>armor. If you notice any slowdown in your armored dwarves then your first priority should be leveling up armor user. A dwarfs speed is the most vital stat in combat since it determines how many times they get to attack as well as having all sorts of other important effects and if the armor is lowering that speed then you need to either make your dwarves stronger, give them lighter armor, or train armor user until the problem goes away.
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TerryDactyl

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2012, 12:48:16 am »

It's tricky to test this stuff, since adventure/arena mechanics are a little different than fortress rules. You've got to consider what you're up against. Against blunt-wielders, I believe lightly armoured high-dodging troops are best.

Tirion

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Re: Dodge vs shield user vs armor user
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2012, 01:17:34 am »

Training one skill selectively is gladiator arena/danger room with specially selected uniform AFAIK (dwarves with any skill in shields will level Shield User, not Armor User), which will raise Fighter and weapon user/wrestler anyway. And those will increase attributes quite fast.
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