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[Dariush]

Obviously he can't be confident and not confident at the same time. He wasn't answering the question based on how he felt, he answered based on what other people were asking. When I pointed this out, he made some BS excuse that he was kinda confident, but not too sure of himself.

WHAT. WHAAAAAT. Answering what is asked is scummy?... Just... just WHAT.

Also, what does any part of your answer have to do whatsoever with my question? Here, I'll quote it again:

Contradictory messages about his own confidence are an example of trying to appease everyone?

I sure would like to hear how different people would be appeased by contradictory statements about his own confidence.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Regarding OMGUSes:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What obviously states that an OMGUS is about votes? Also, the root behavior of the OMGUS is scum pressuring someone who is pressuring them, in an attempt to get that someone off the scum's back. Basically, scum chainsawing for him/herself.

(PPE: After thinking about it a bit, RVS doesn't generate enough pressure to warrant calling something an OMGUS. First OMGUS accusation scrapped.)

>OMGUS!

Yeah, you did kinda OMGUS me pretty hard.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Regarding Toony:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I would love to point out that Toony never explicitly stated his suspicion on me being a Cybrid, UI. YOU are the one who is stating such, and spouting it like it was common knowledge. Along with using a dead man's reasoning on why he didn't blow me up to cover your case.

What other scum would Toony be looking for? More importantly, where did I tie in Toony's vote on you with you being scum? I was giving Hapah my explanation for Toony not blowing you up. It had nothing to do with my case.

>Using Toony's death as a reason.

Except I never did that.

Huh?

You only "re-read" now and then you ask Hapah on why wouldn't Toony explode on me without giving your own reasons? Personally, I don't even know why he did so after building that case on me. What I guess from his playstyle, he goes aggressive and doesn't give up until target is lynched.

Also, I can't fathom how you came up with your last sentence. You answered Hapah's general statement with one of your own without letting the defendant...defend himself.

In the simplest way that I thought when reading this: 'Toony knew, and decided to kill the last one who voted him and I knew too.'

[...]

Also, wtf does the part I bolded mean?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Regarding my scumhunting:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Summary: You set your eyes on 'cybrid' instead of scum at large, apparently following the thinking in this post.

There are other scum?

You also jump from Hapah to borno, and currently on me as if your switchiness isn't a deterrent. Why didn't you press on Hapah?

Because borno was scummier, and when I was rereading I found Hapah's comments less objectionable than previously.

Also, what does the part I bolded mean?

I have a bad feeling on you, and how you attack me, including how many quotes you pull without giving your own take on them or how you reason on why they make me scummy. (Quote mining and format on my posts without explanation are repeat offenders).

How have I been quote mining? Examples please, with explanations.
How is the formatting relevant?

I meant that you were excusing your lack of prior posting far too early for it to be reasonable to do so. How the hell would the excuse you gave do anything to cover future lurking?

Then you twist my words and give them a biased meaning. What I think is, you want to make it an excuse even when I never even wrote that with the purpose of it being an excuse at all. Just a statement. This whole sentence finishes it.

How is that twisting your words?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Miscellaneous:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, it seems trying to be as transparent as possible translates to being defensive. What would you prefer?

Scumhunting.

Seriously though. What was your biggest takeaway from the Roguelike?

When I know someone's scum, I should build an actual case on them before going on the offensive.

So hit me with your actual case, other than wasting time in the day!

By "actual case" I mean something more than "he's scum by process of elimination." Something with evidence. Also, you're implying that I know you're scum. Guilty conscience?

You don't seem like a cybrid to me, but another type of scum.

There are other scum?

Also, just out of curiosity, how many games have you been scum? I swear, you're scum more often than webadict.

tl;dr: Tiruin made an excuse for lurking less than nine hours into the game, did some other unimportant stuff during RVS, OMGUSed the shit out of me when I attacked him, contradicted his original premature lurking excuse, and is now furiously flinging shit at me in an effort to get me to stop incriminating him.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Stuff for other people:

zombie urist: I cannot help but notice that you're neither voting nor attacking anyone. Who do you suspect and why aren't you doing anything about them?

Toaster: Who are your top scumpicks besides Tiruin?

Think: I'd like to report a bug with the lurker tracker: When a vote or FoS is quoted, it shows up twice.

[Tiruin]

First of all, I fail hard at making my statements clear.

Spoiler: First post, after mine by UI (click to show/hide)

Your first excuse was that you missed the thread in your new replies (if that's what you meant by newbox [and if not, what did you mean?]). You appear to have changed your story, because as far as I can tell, time zones and medical work have no effect on missing the thread in your new replies (unless anesthesia was involved, but I get the impression you're talking about classwork).

That was not an excuse. I did not write it with any motive, ulterior or not to be an excuse.

You got the nail there, and now that I know how you're looking at it: what I was thinking at that time was on where the main thread was, as usually Mafia games happen in the same sign-up thread, and yes, I do not miss any thread in my new replies. Believe me when I state, I do not lurk, nor was that statement meant as a reference for any lurking at all.

Like I said, despite my (apparent) lack of skills in scumhunting, I always make sure that I'd at least post everytime I go online.

Where did you say this?

I...messed it up. Before that, I had made a post that regarded that and was finishing it up at the time until brownout happened. Lost all text and then led me to write it up again with time constraint.

Lesson learned: Do not make overly-long statements in between business periods in case anything unexpected happens.

Spoiler: Second (click to show/hide)

What obviously states that an OMGUS is about votes? Also, the root behavior of the OMGUS is scum pressuring someone who is pressuring them, in an attempt to get that someone off the scum's back. Basically, scum chainsawing for him/herself.

(PPE: After thinking about it a bit, RVS doesn't generate enough pressure to warrant calling something an OMGUS. First OMGUS accusation scrapped.)

>OMGUS!

Yeah, you did kinda OMGUS me pretty hard.

Well, what I know from the BMs. OMGUS - Votes. Also, what I derived from it is a U Suck vote, made only because someone voted them without any good reasons why.

Technically, that may be an OMGUS where you see it because the reasoning is against your own, but I did back it up with what I believe and from my viewpoint, isn't as the vote wasn't solely based on the vote itself.

Spoiler: Third (click to show/hide)

Regarding Toony:

I would love to point out that Toony never explicitly stated his suspicion on me being a Cybrid, UI. YOU are the one who is stating such, and spouting it like it was common knowledge. Along with using a dead man's reasoning on why he didn't blow me up to cover your case.

What other scum would Toony be looking for? More importantly, where did I tie in Toony's vote on you with you being scum? I was giving Hapah my explanation for Toony not blowing you up. It had nothing to do with my case.

>Using Toony's death as a reason.

Except I never did that.

Huh?

You only "re-read" now and then you ask Hapah on why wouldn't Toony explode on me without giving your own reasons? Personally, I don't even know why he did so after building that case on me. What I guess from his playstyle, he goes aggressive and doesn't give up until target is lynched.

Also, I can't fathom how you came up with your last sentence. You answered Hapah's general statement with one of your own without letting the defendant...defend himself.

In the simplest way that I thought when reading this: 'Toony knew, and decided to kill the last one who voted him and I knew too.'

[...]

Also, wtf does the part I bolded mean?

What I meant was, you were using Toony's not-blowing me up without any reason why he chose Bookthras as leverage to put a case on me. Also...what does it mean? I'm not confusing things here, I just don't understand what you're trying to point out by just formatting and singling out that sentence.

Or...were you asking me this in a non-rhetorical way? Ugh. My mistake. Thought you were saying it that way.

That you continued the case on me being Cybrid by giving your explanation to Hapah without waiting for my reply on my own defense.

Spoiler: Fourth (click to show/hide)

Regarding my scumhunting:

Summary: You set your eyes on 'cybrid' instead of scum at large, apparently following the thinking in this post.

There are other scum?

You also jump from Hapah to borno, and currently on me as if your switchiness isn't a deterrent. Why didn't you press on Hapah?

Because borno was scummier, and when I was rereading I found Hapah's comments less objectionable than previously.

Also, what does the part I bolded mean?

I have a bad feeling on you, and how you attack me, including how many quotes you pull without giving your own take on them or how you reason on why they make me scummy. (Quote mining and format on my posts without explanation are repeat offenders).

How have I been quote mining? Examples please, with explanations.
How is the formatting relevant?

I meant that you were excusing your lack of prior posting far too early for it to be reasonable to do so. How the hell would the excuse you gave do anything to cover future lurking?

Then you twist my words and give them a biased meaning. What I think is, you want to make it an excuse even when I never even wrote that with the purpose of it being an excuse at all. Just a statement. This whole sentence finishes it.

How is that twisting your words?

Aren't Rebels also scum as Cybrids? Where I saw it, Toony didn't know anyone, including other Rebels.

The bolded part means that you switched, then didn't explain it in detail before. It came across to me as jumpy on the votes.

On the quote mining, your first post of the day has only part of my explanation and left me wondering why you'd not include the rest, also on why you assumed what I was thinking.

On twisting my words. Saying what I posted is an excuse-incognito. Seems that was a misunderstanding now that I get it.

Spoiler: Fifth (click to show/hide)

Miscellaneous:

Also, it seems trying to be as transparent as possible translates to being defensive. What would you prefer?

Scumhunting.

Seriously though. What was your biggest takeaway from the Roguelike?

When I know someone's scum, I should build an actual case on them before going on the offensive.

So hit me with your actual case, other than wasting time in the day!

By "actual case" I mean something more than "he's scum by process of elimination." Something with evidence. Also, you're implying that I know you're scum. Guilty conscience?

You don't seem like a cybrid to me, but another type of scum.

There are other scum?

Also, just out of curiosity, how many games have you been scum? I swear, you're scum more often than webadict.

tl;dr: Tiruin made an excuse for lurking less than nine hours into the game, did some other unimportant stuff during RVS, OMGUSed the shit out of me when I attacked him, contradicted his original premature lurking excuse, and is now furiously flinging shit at me in an effort to get me to stop incriminating him.

I'm not implying anything there, I'm just seeing it from where the prosecution was standing. Where I see it, you were scumhunting me with reasons I didn't understand until now: in your first post in the second day. You were fervent on the belief that I was a cybrid, and also based part of that on what you thought Toony would see it as.

Toony didn't know anything about anyone else, seeing his action and it's victim.

Also, I've been scum in...a BM, the cybrid game before this, roguelike mafia, politibastard...those are what I remember. The rest, I was town.

And, restating, yes there are other scum: Rebels.

And P.S. That was no excuse, but if you want to see it that way, then I'm fine with that even after all my explanations on it.

More coming up in...8 hours from now.

Timecount?

[Toaster]

I still don't think Dar is a cybrid, based on the results of my D1 actions.

I'd like to see you expound on this a bit more.

And Toaster, I'm a little surprised by your actions: I really expected you to try to tease every little bit of information out of the four deaths and post your thoughts. It's entirely possible you just haven't gotten around to it yet, though (it's a bit of a read, and it looks like you've had non-Mafia obligations to tend to).

You haven't played with me very much, so let me just give you my opinion on NK interpretation.  I think trying to figure out anything on who gets NKed is diving headfirst into the WIFOM.  Book/Toony is hardly useful information.

However, I'd like to know which four deaths you mean, since there are five dead players.


Think:  Then why not advocate or vote for no-lynch?


Tiruin:  Is your vote on UI a lynch vote?  If so, when did it become one?


UI:  Right now, Hapah is my secondary pick, mainly for oddball accusations and the weak hunting that I've been needling him over.  Dariush... I'm trying to decide if he's being hardheaded, intentionally obtuse, or scummy.  I'm leaning away from the third choice, though.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin:  Is your vote on UI a lynch vote?  If so, when did it become one?

It is a lynch vote.

First impression and reasons: WTF did he just post at the start of day.

The reasoning was vague and seemed to be pulled out of nowhere, focusing on how he viewed my thread-related ideas as an excuse. Then an OMGUS out of nowhere, leading me to lay that vote on him being the scummiest looking target. There may be others, I'm sure, but that was the first thing I've seen.

Also, it doesn't look like something a townie would say out of the blue. It struck me as weird. Reasons in my posts above.

Anyway, PFP for now. More later.

Hapah: Why do you keep on saying why you only think others as cybrid or not? Rebels are also a threat.

[Toaster]

Tiruin:  That didn't really answer my question of when it was a lynch vote.

[Hapah]

Tir: I think GG said we'd end on Monday. Also, THANK YOU for your last post, posts structured point-by-point like that are so much easier to follow.

Hapah: Why do you keep on saying why you only think others as cybrid or not? Rebels are also a threat.

Because we can't really afford a non-Cybrid lynch today. We don't know how many Cybrids there are (I suspect 2 starting, no clue about conversions), but after four dead non-Cybrids I'm definitely nervous about the game situation. They are almost certainly the strongest faction at the moment, and we need to set them back today, or we might not see tomorrow. Trying to tease out who is Imp and who is Reb in the thread is a distraction that we can't afford at this point, in my opinion. I've got my suspicions (as I'm sure everyone does), but trying to hash them all out at this point is counterproductive.

Toaster:

I still don't think Dar is a cybrid, based on the results of my D1 actions.

I'd like to see you expound on this a bit more.

Sure, but there's not much to say. Dar and Toony were tied up with 2 votes each. My reasoning went that if either was Cybrid, the unknown Cybrid (or maybe even the pressured Cybrid, though I found that option much less likely) would attack an easy target (me) to get the pressure off their scumbuddy (either Dar or Toony). Imps and Rebs don't know who their buddies are, and so they wouldn't respond in a similar fashion. The big attack case on me never appeared, only you and Book urging me to get my act together (which I liked) and borno trying to start a bandwagon on me (which I didn't like. I wanted someone to make a case that DESTROYED me, not that.) Is there some particular part that you would like clarified?

And Toaster, I'm a little surprised by your actions: I really expected you to try to tease every little bit of information out of the four deaths and post your thoughts. It's entirely possible you just haven't gotten around to it yet, though (it's a bit of a read, and it looks like you've had non-Mafia obligations to tend to).

You haven't played with me very much, so let me just give you my opinion on NK interpretation.  I think trying to figure out anything on who gets NKed is diving headfirst into the WIFOM.  Book/Toony is hardly useful information.

However, I'd like to know which four deaths you mean, since there are five dead players.

I scanned the thread, and I still only see four dead men. Toony, Book, borno, and obol. Who'd I miss?

And we have a misunderstanding, I don't want to know -why- someone got killed. I agree with you, that's normally an exercise in futility for anything beyond very rough guesses like "He's good at scumhunting". But what we can do is re-read what the dead have said, since their motives should be more apparent in death. I tried to parse it into something useful, but I came up empty. I was kinda surprised that nobody really tried to pick the dead people's brains (besides UI, and only a little). Maybe people play this a lot closer to the chest than I had realized.

[Tiruin]

Toaster

By his third post of the day. Here, I finalize my case on him.

Reason: when he kept on going that my single statement was an excuse on lurking. A whole seven word sentence that defined my whole plan on lurking.

Seriously, his only basis on me is that, and an OMGUS. The fact is, UI, you're basing a probability on a simple sentence that Hapah pointed out the meaning and then inflated the case.

tl;dr: Tiruin made an excuse for lurking less than nine hours into the game, did some other unimportant stuff during RVS, OMGUSed the shit out of me when I attacked him, contradicted his original premature lurking excuse, and is now furiously flinging shit at me in an effort to get me to stop incriminating him.

And I would truly love to point out this, how he disregards everything I've said and make it seem that I'm on the defensive.

Only newbies straight up OMGUS people in m honest view, i.e., a vote solely in response to a vote. More experienced players usually find reasons to vote the player voting them, and even though it's technically an OMGUS, it doesn't matter for shit, since players can find excellent and even telling reasons for their vote in response to the vote of another. It's not an OMGUS if there are good reasons behind it, and this I know from re-reading elder threads. Ones that did show the difference between terminology.

UI subtly evaded that and scrapped his first accusation of an OMGUS on me (pressure) in his post earlier then went with the substitute that aimed for technicalities.

Now for that 'excuse'. "I miss this thread in my newbox..." UI pointed out that I made an excuse (despite what I claim, and what others point out). He keeps on insisting it as an excuse after I point out the truth on it and it's basically redundant to even say such because it can't even work as an excuse.

Putting it in an example form: He notes an excuse for 'lurking for less than 9 hours after game start'. From logical conclusion, he is appealing to probability as from his post later on:

I meant that you were excusing your lack of prior posting far too early for it to be reasonable to do so. How the hell would the excuse you gave do anything to cover future lurking?

And the same question defines my answer. It won't do anything because it's not a damned excuse!

It's just disgusting about calling it an excuse. In between the lines, it's also akin to accusing someone of ignoring the thread completely, as the new replies part shows...threads where new replies are put. I mean, my very first post of the day already states the reason why and he repeats it ad infinitum. Also, note that he just dropped using Toony's viewpoint after I pointed it out; playing on an argument from ignorance.

As Hapah said, Toony was mostly focused on you. You were his main suspect, and as such, you were probably the person he believed to be the cybrid. Exploding you would be stupid in case he was right.

and this
Toony is a Rebel. Seeing it from a Rebel's viewpoint, his threats are spread out equally at Day 1. Nobody dead. Cybrid or Imperial are threats to him in equal measure.

He [Toony] believed I was scum. UI is specifying. Here, he tries to affirm a disjunction that has already disproven itself by his [Toony's] action on Bookthras. Toony didn't know the roles of anyone, seeing his flip.

Also, I've noted you [UI] say that if a cybrid dies at day 1, Imperials win. Why so?


Also, UI, you forgot this:

UI: If Toony didn't want Tiruin to die, why was he voting for Tiruin? And why are you speculating so much on this?

[Urist Imiknorris]

I'll make an actual content post later, but for now:

What I meant was, you were using Toony's not-blowing me up without any reason why he chose Bookthras as leverage to put a case on me.

NO I GODDAMN WAS NOT. MY SPECULATION REGARDING TOONY AND MY CASE ON YOU ARE COMPLETELY UNRELATED. I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS. YOU HAVE IGNORED IT.

[Tiruin]

I'll make an actual content post later, but for now:

What I meant was, you were using Toony's not-blowing me up without any reason why he chose Bookthras as leverage to put a case on me.

NO I GODDAMN WAS NOT. MY SPECULATION REGARDING TOONY AND MY CASE ON YOU ARE COMPLETELY UNRELATED. I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS. YOU HAVE IGNORED IT.

While you did, you seem to be ignoring the implications of your earlier post, hence: tie-in possibility.

From where I saw it, your tone was the one that indicated it's tie-in with your case on me, as I'm seeing your vote as an attack on scum. Implying starts with the explanation to Hapah.

Hapah:

Toony was mostly focused on Tiruin, but apparently didn't suspect him enough to use his explodey-boom on him.

Why would he? Killing the cybrid D1 at the cost of a rebel killing role would be very likely to hand the Empire a D1 victory, yes?

Why would he? Killing the cybrid D1 at the cost of a rebel killing role would be very likely to hand the Empire a D1 victory, yes?

So, you know for a fact Tiruin is a Cybrid and you know for a fact Toony knew that. Explain.

Dariush: I make reasonable (imo) guesses and extrapolate from there. Reasonable guess: Toony was sincere in going after Tiruin. Do you see where my explanation comes from now?

Dariush:

Your logic goes 'Toony suspected Tiruin is Cybrid so he didn't explode him because that would make his team lose'.

I altered your quote to correct the one part of my reasoning that you got wrong.

Regarding Toony:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I would love to point out that Toony never explicitly stated his suspicion on me being a Cybrid, UI. YOU are the one who is stating such, and spouting it like it was common knowledge. Along with using a dead man's reasoning on why he didn't blow me up to cover your case.

What other scum would Toony be looking for? More importantly, where did I tie in Toony's vote on you with you being scum? I was giving Hapah my explanation for Toony not blowing you up. It had nothing to do with my case.

And, yes, it is your own explanation, but refer to my other post on the question of such before exploding into fury with capital letters. Like I said, Imperials; Cybrid, they are both threats to Rebels.

Actually, that thing you said to Hapah was speculation on a death, perhaps the reason that led to all this talk on it and where I see it, speculating on people's deaths without clear reason on 'why' is a tell for WIFOM. You cannot connect if he didn't explain.

Conjunct reasoning, why pick one over the other when you don't know anyone's role?

[GlyphGryph]

Timecount is around 46 hours till day end. Results will be revealed, but it will be flavourless. Since Monday/Tuesday is my hardest times, expect it to be flavourless for a while.

Monday night, EST yo.