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Author Topic: 15 years and still no marriage...  (Read 2263 times)

Yovatsap

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15 years and still no marriage...
« on: June 06, 2012, 02:55:01 pm »

I have kept this fort going for 15 dwarven years. It's a no-migrant fort and thus I only have 13 dwarves.

Within these, there is just one couple who are lovers.

But they still haven't married after 15 years and I really need those extra dwarves. What am I doing wrong here? I have made sure they all spend winter and spring completely idle in the same dining room. They even organized a couple of parties which both of them attended. Urist Zonmistêm is apparently too much of a wuss to take the relationship to the next level.

Am I doing something wrong here?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 02:56:50 pm by Yovatsap »
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Garath

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2012, 03:03:38 pm »

you do realize their children wont reproduce, so the fort is doomed in any case?

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Yovatsap

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2012, 03:05:08 pm »

you do realize their children wont reproduce, so the fort is doomed in any case?
You do realize their children might reproduce with the other dwarves, or their children. Right?

But I think they're all romantically retarded so I guess you're kinda right...

Maklak

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2012, 04:57:34 pm »

I think you either have to disable all their labours and burrow them in the same spot for a few seasons or do something with Runesmith. I had a fortress for 5 years with no marriages and no children and I kept my 80 dwarves very busy. Unfortunately FPS dropped from tens of thousands of items I accumulated, so I abandoned the fortress. 
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Finn

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2012, 05:36:01 pm »

I don't think there is a lot of knowledge in the community about the actual mechanics of marriage, you are breaking new ground here.  As I've mentioned in a previous thread, I've started multiple games from the same embark save and the time from friend to lover to married varied a great deal for the same couple - from very quickly to almost 10 years.  It did seem like time spent in proximity to each other was a corrolated factor, but this was only anecdotal observation, not science.

It's possible the program merely makes a random roll once a (year? season?) and the percentage is small.  This would be both easy to implement and would show similar variance.  In fact, the more that I think about it, the more I think that it actually is that simple.  Until someone finds evidence to the contrary, anyway.

It's that true, then you just have to wait and eventually it will happen.
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I thought 'complained about the draft lately' meant they didn't have a door to their room.

Yovatsap

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2012, 05:53:39 pm »

I don't think there is a lot of knowledge in the community about the actual mechanics of marriage, you are breaking new ground here.  As I've mentioned in a previous thread, I've started multiple games from the same embark save and the time from friend to lover to married varied a great deal for the same couple - from very quickly to almost 10 years.  It did seem like time spent in proximity to each other was a corrolated factor, but this was only anecdotal observation, not science.

It's possible the program merely makes a random roll once a (year? season?) and the percentage is small.  This would be both easy to implement and would show similar variance.  In fact, the more that I think about it, the more I think that it actually is that simple.  Until someone finds evidence to the contrary, anyway.

It's that true, then you just have to wait and eventually it will happen.
But if that is correct and it is THAT simple, then there would not be a limit on how much they could go as lovers without getting married. Which also means that they may never get married. It's a good thing that the average dorf has a long lifespan.

And so we wait...
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 05:55:23 pm by Yovatsap »
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JimDale

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2012, 09:24:13 pm »

I've only ever had marriages in forts with 60+ populations that I couldn't keep at work most of the time (that I've ever noticed) but I don't know if this has anything to do with that.

those were also the only forts I ever mined candy or gold, so maybe wealth is a factor, though I'd just chalk it up to bad luck (for you, that is).
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WealthyRadish

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2012, 09:51:52 pm »

I really think it's random. On my current embark, I have 3 pairs of lovers, and I'm only half a season in. It was really weird, checking therapist and seeing that 6 of them were ecstatic, from 'getting caught up in a new romance'. I kind of feel bad for the excluded miner... a bit of a 7th wheel, really. Definitely going to get awkward as the years go by and he remains single, while all his friends (they're all friends with each other too) get married.
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Bytyan

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 11:52:41 pm »

I really think it's random. On my current embark, I have 3 pairs of lovers, and I'm only half a season in. It was really weird, checking therapist and seeing that 6 of them were ecstatic, from 'getting caught up in a new romance'. I kind of feel bad for the excluded miner... a bit of a 7th wheel, really. Definitely going to get awkward as the years go by and he remains single, while all his friends (they're all friends with each other too) get married.

Make Mr. Miner a militia member. If he can't have his cohorts, he should have his hammer.

More to the point, perhaps they aren't that close?
In a closed little joint, mediocre is all she knows?
Do their traits work together?
Or does she love him like a brother?
Maybe your dwarves are just all jerks.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 12:02:04 am by Bytyan »
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blackmagechill

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2012, 12:12:36 am »

Make Mr. Miner a militia member. If he can't have his cohorts, he should have his hammer brain shattering mining tool.
Miners are the best militia members because they double as potent, armor shredding murderers, and well, miners. As for the marriage issue, I'd search marriage, lovers, children, birth rate, ect. In the upper forums and see if any research topics pop out. In particular there was one piecewise (I think) did where he locked all the starting dwarves up in the wagon via wall with food and let them social it out. I think it had something to do with marriage in there too, but I'm not entirely sure.
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i2amroy

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2012, 12:33:18 am »

The biggest thing required for marriage is increasing the socialization of your dwarves, which means more free time. Also your main meeting room (mine is my dining room) needs to be smaller. Dwarves will only socialize with dwarves extremely close to them (like on their same tile) and so won't become friends or anything more with other dwarves. For purposes of marriages I found the most effective way to form them (though not with a specific dwarf) is to lock 1 male/female dwarf and 6-10 dwarves of the opposite gender in a 1-3 tile room. Then just drop food/booze in and wait about a season or so. After that point they should become friends and eventually the single dwarf will end up marrying one of the other dwarves, I used the method for my nobles all of the time if they are unmarried and it hardly ever fails.
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slink

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2012, 07:50:13 am »

In my recent fortresses of relatively short lifespan, less than 10 years, my founders always pair off as lovers and I usually get one or two pairs getting married and having children.  Just once, a single adult migrant became the lover of one of my founders but something happened to that fortress before they got married.  I have not had any pairs of single adult migrants become lovers.

At the beginning of the fortress I have a small meeting zone, about 5x5.  When the larger waves of migrants begin to arrive I go to an 11x11 meeting zone.  After a couple of years I build a large dining room which doubles as the meeting area.  In combination with the data above, this supports the theory that confining Dwarves in small meeting areas encourages marriages.  The problem is that some animals will fight if they are allowed to freely go to the meeting area when it is small.  It is probably best to pen all of the animals elsewhere, even the pets, if you want to put a large population of Dwarves into a small meeting area.  I believe you also get an increased number of grudges, with whatever consequences that entails.

Edit: In a previous version I used to make two different meeting areas, one for singles and one for the rest.  I controlled access with burrows.  My theory was that forcing singles to only socialize with other singles would hasten marriages.  It required a lot of micromanagement as Dwarves arrived, were born, or got married, but it worked well.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 07:57:31 am by slink »
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Yovatsap

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2012, 08:03:53 am »

Hmm... I have a 15x15 legendary dining room which has lots of statues inside and is also marked as a sculpture garden... If I were to resize both the dining room and the sculpture garden, would I be able to get the dwarves to stand closer to each other?

Oh and also: a masterwork gold statue is right in the middle of the room and making it a dining room causes it to not be in the center and I hate that (kinda obsessive about aesthetic symmetry). Would they still get the "dined in a legendary dining room lately" thought if I just designate the room (or part of it) as a sculpture garden?

Oh, wait I got it! I'm keeping the sculpture garden and dining room in the same place but disabling the "meeting hall" option for the dining room. So they'll get the legendary dining room thought and still hang out in a closer space...

I think it worked! I have another lover couple nao. Ustuth and Tobul sittin' in a tree... K-I-S-S-I-N-G. (Yes, they are secretly elves.)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 09:29:54 am by Yovatsap »
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vicwarrior

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2012, 10:18:19 am »

(Yes, they are secretly elves.)

Oh god MAGMA MAGMA NOW
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WealthyRadish

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Re: 15 years and still no marriage...
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2012, 11:30:18 am »

Ustuth and Tobul kissin' a tree... K-I-S-S-I-N-G. (Yes, they are secretly elves.)

Fixed that for you.
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