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[Xen0n]

Also, in the interests of ‼SCIENCE‼, you should use this same minecart system to send new migrants to the underwater city to see if dwarves drown while riding a submerged cart.  We already know they aren't hurt by riding a cart full of magma, so maybe when new arrivals come they can ride the cart (and supplies) under the ocean and arrive in style in your city.  The bonus there?  No babies will ever arrive in the city, since mothers won't carry them into the cart.

Dwarves won't ride in a cart if the track is submerged, through they will guide it (which still drowns them).  I suppose the carts could still be used to bring supplies, but it may require several rollers underwater, which would be an endeavour by itself.

As far as practical applications for minecarts go, they can be used as a more power efficient alternative to the pump stack when bringing up magma.  Rollers spaced every 3 levels on a double helix (one up, one down) can automatically bring up magma covering the bottom layer of the track for only 9 power per 3 zlevels (as opposed to 10 power per 1 zlevel with pumps).  Carts use fewer parts too, pumps would take 3 blocks, 3 corkscrews, and 3 pipes per 3 zlevels (all magma safe), whereas minecarts use 2 wood, 2 mechanisms, and one rope with only 2 mechanism and 1 rope being magma safe for the bottom level (or no parts at all if you forgo automation and don't power it).  Mining out the spiral takes arguably as much work as prep for a pump stack, and may not require any mining or track if you just manually pump magma into some carts and haul them up to empty them into one tile (it's enough if you just want to power a forge).  Carts don't have anywhere near the output of pumps, but they can move your forge levels up to the rest of the fort and provide magma for closed-system magma traps.

Or more practical than that, use rollers as mass divers for a literal "railgun."  Just accelerate carts back and forth across your entrance to bowl over goblins.

A "Yo Dawg" version of this idea came out in the other minecart thread, using wheelbarrows to carry the magma minecarts without spending time to make a track/rollers.  Looking forward to eventually updating from 34.07 to not need pumpstacks

[Sutremaine]

Dwarves won't ride in a cart if the track is submerged, through they will guide it (which still drowns them).

I now have a new idea for Swimming training.

[Snaake]

Perhaps you could automate the airlocks by using pressure plates on the track. If you could judge the speed correctly, the inner doors of the airlock could open while the minecart is in the airlock and the outer doors are shut. Then you'd get your minecart, which has been moving at a steady speed the whole time, and as much water as fits in the airlock.

Immediately after thinking of airlocks, I started thinking how one would build a time-delay system that would trigger the opening of the inner door (and probably some rollers on the entrance squre, to get the cart moving again). Would probably be simpler to have a 2-square airlock and have the opening signal for the inner door be when the 2nd square has <2/7 water. Water is pumped out from the 1st square, where the minecart arrives and triggers another pressure plate that closes the outer door and engages the pump.

[Sabreur]

Immediately after thinking of airlocks, I started thinking how one would build a time-delay system that would trigger the opening of the inner door (and probably some rollers on the entrance squre, to get the cart moving again). Would probably be simpler to have a 2-square airlock and have the opening signal for the inner door be when the 2nd square has <2/7 water. Water is pumped out from the 1st square, where the minecart arrives and triggers another pressure plate that closes the outer door and engages the pump.

Depending on flow rate, wouldn't that mean the inner door would only close when the entire bottom level of the fort was 3/7 deep in water?

[knutor]

@Sabreur, dunno, that is a tough question.  I would imagine the inner door would close when its linked water level pressure plate height range was met.  But I dunno, for certain.

A 1x1 justice restraint at the bottom of a rock chute, would expedite the legal system.

Does the riding/pushing dwarf get a happy thought when tracks go through a waterfall?

[Snaake]

...I particularly liked the idea of a garbage man setup where all my various workshops and junk-creating sites can instead just dump their refuse indoors, and a minecart can make its way around the ring and then dump it down to the sea.

I wonder if refuse/corpses rot/produce miasma while in a cart? If not, that would be all kinds of useful for moving my butcher&co. underground. Also, can they be raised as zombies while in a cart?


And about my previous suggestion for an automated airlock, I haven't used pressure plates yet, so you're probably right. Should still be doable, just needs some more logic components. With enough fiddling, you could probably just have a timer and only a 1-tile airlock, but that might be more prone to accidental flooding, if a component gets destroyed by a tantrum, for example.

[Talvieno]

It takes a bit too long to set up a track, in my opinion, like stated in the OP. However, if you build just one or two tracks stretching from the top of the fortress to the bottom, and your fortress has 175 z-levels of stone before you hit the magma sea, minecarts are now a lifesaver. If you use minecarts for trivial matters like transporting stones ten z-levels, you're going to find them worthless.

I think that if Toady made it so that wheelbarrows slowed down when going up ramps/stairs), it would make minecarts much, much more useful.

[Urist McSpike]

So, an idea occurred to me, if it hasn't been posted about before - a minecart incinerator.  A small, closed loop track, with three tiles of magma (down slope, magma, up slope with rollers), and one track stop set to dump to the side, with no stop.  Set a garbage dump where the minecart will dump, and trigger the rollers to activate.  The cart should zip along, dump 2/7 of magma, and reset.  You'd probably want a way to easily refill the magma tile, keep dwarves out when in use, and have an airshaft to disperse smoke.  Of course, I don't know how much of an improvement this would be over any other type of incinerator. 

Code: [Select]

z 0 - (counter-clockwise pathing)
track ...../===\
track .....|
track ....G#.... garbage dump, track stop (dump left, lowest friction
track .....|
track .....\===/

z -1
...
............... ^ - powered rollers, up ramp
............... M - powered rollers, magma
............... ^ - up ramp
...


[darkrider2]

Other than dwarves simply walking to the magma and throwing it in? There's not much of a difference.

Although it could end in fun if a dwarf dumps something in the zone and the cart rolls by.

[Xenos]

So, an idea occurred to me, if it hasn't been posted about before - a minecart incinerator.  A small, closed loop track, with three tiles of magma (down slope, magma, up slope with rollers), and one track stop set to dump to the side, with no stop.  Set a garbage dump where the minecart will dump, and trigger the rollers to activate.  The cart should zip along, dump 2/7 of magma, and reset.  You'd probably want a way to easily refill the magma tile, keep dwarves out when in use, and have an airshaft to disperse smoke.  Of course, I don't know how much of an improvement this would be over any other type of incinerator. 

Code: [Select]

z 0 - (counter-clockwise pathing)
track ...../===\
track .....|
track ....G#.... garbage dump, track stop (dump left, lowest friction
track .....|
track .....\===/

z -1
...
............... ^ - powered rollers, up ramp
............... M - powered rollers, magma
............... ^ - up ramp
...


Or set the cart to dump off an edge into magma and your dwarf just rides the cart so he can push it further along the track.

[Triaxx2]

Ah, Minecarts. I just lost a fortress with a good set up. One minecart moved bars from the smelter to a stockpile for the forges, and returned for more. Another was being loaded with goods and then dropping them to a quantum stockpile just beside the Trade Depot.

As for ore, I simply have the stuff hauled to a single ore stockpile per level, then it's loaded into a cart, with one stop per level that dumps at a primary stockpile.

[Lamphare]

My fortresses have tracks laid off across the whole structure, interior and exterior, but rarely I use minecart for mineral hauling.
Instead I do exploratory mining prior to mass extraction, thus giving me and my dorfs time to carve out tracks on multiple levels, only for concentrated transportation.
Any ore mined out would be hauled to stockpile next to the track waiting to be ported to the main keep sometimes like 30 levels up, 200 tiles away. Greatly reduces dwarven labour while preclude such akward situation mentioned on the OP.

Minecarts are awesome for internal hauling. They Do!
The fact they travel on a different route as the dwarf haulers makes the high traffic area less full of dwarf, especially when my fortresses gets to have a king.

[TBeholder]

'Guide' is like walking around the shops with a shopping trolley
'Ride' is like pushing off a bobsled and getting in it
'Push' is like pushing off a bobsled and waving it goodbye

Except in "Ride" mode they become helpless when they meet a ramp? 
"Guided" feels cheaty... Though to think about it, this could pass for a handcar. If it was an upgraded heavier and slightly less roomy version (minecart + mechanism -> handcar) and dorfs used Pump Operator skill and Endurance for this, that would be cool, though.

- Even with a system of hatches, occasionally a dwarf is crushed by the falling ore.

How is it possible with a good lock?
Guided carts have rather low speed and plates react on carts, right? So, a short track down there and a few mechanisms is all that's needed. "Depart <> when empty". An incoming hauler presses the plate. The hatch opens, collected stones fall 1 level; then the plate unclicks and hatch closes - if it's not too close, hauler isn't at the lower pile yet.
z+2: #.###
z+1: #˘### - hatch <┐
z+0: #•  _ - plate  ┘

More correct "hatch is closed while a dorf is inside" locks aren't too hard, but since everything shaft-blocking opens when activated, it requires more plates on the way there + NOR gate. Thus it depends on a reliable power or water source. Then again, if you run magma-works, you probably should already have a good water cistern above either way.
z+2: #.###
z+1: #˘### - hatch <- (NOR #1)
z+0: #•+++ - pressure plates -> (NOR #1.1-1.N)
≈##########
≈╬╬╬╬˘˘˘˘^#
≈##########

The problem with this is that until burrows can be set to "only these dwarves", you'll get haulers from elsewhere going in there as well. Unless of course you do as someone claimed to have done: magma industries as a completely isolated fort complete with magnificent dining and sleeping quarters. Food, booze, ore, etc. delivered via minecarts, magma industry endproducts sent out via powered minecarts.

Unless it's sealed with automated doors, carved tracks link the area to the rest. Then if random louts don't walk there on cart tracks to haul 1 empty bag, it's because of low-traffic status of those tracks. But if that works, "completely isolated" part is superfluous - reasonably remote placement and painting "restricted-traffic" along the entries should do.

I haven't actually played the version with carts yet, so I don't know if this is feasible, but if it is I can see them being plenty useful for ore hauling on large embarks.

On embark, nickel (i.e. magma-safe) cart 100p, like an anvil. A wooden minecart costs 50p. Logs are 3p, a copper axe to chop wood out there 68p. Carts are made from logs in carpenter's shop, so it's a waste, like most made goods.

_{Edit: gah! more sleep.}

[TBeholder]

i tried a cart based "pump stack". it was micromanagement hell to ensure the little bastards didn't overfill the channels. however it was quicker to setup and nowhere near as laggy as a stack using actual pumps.

With controllable rollers and stops, water pressure and levers may be used for automation.
Also, if the carts do Newton's cradle, maybe just filling the whole track with carts will work as one continuous scoop conveyor, run by one roller per upward ramp? Needs testing.
Filling it should be as simple as a pair of track stops - from one dorfs push imediately, another is next to it on the other side, set on max friction and catches carts. When full, remove push order, turn off friction with a lever and you have the track full of carts.

[Wastedlabor]

My current fort, Cultorb the Cathedral of Bones, uses a minecart loop that jumps over the magma moat to connect the +100 peasants' town with the 30 soul harvesting elite dwarves volcano temple. The templars will go on with their life, while peasants are slaughtered outside and the corpses and masterwork offerings are delivered via minecart for the catacombs.