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[Viken]

No, Alkhemia.  When a creator agrees to host a Kickstarter Campaign, they sign a contract saying that they can and WILL be held responsible for any rewards, offered goods/services, and products that are listed.  If he 'jumps ship' as it is, Kickstarter, Amazon, and those who put the money forward can legally take him to court over the breach of contract. 

But this is game developement, creating software from scratch can take months or even years, and can often take longer than what was originally thought.  If we start putting our own expectations onto such things, then we become no better than the multi-billion dollar game publishing companies everyone likes to bad-mouth.

All I say is: Give him time.  Its been less than three months.  If nothing comes out in another three, then start to worry.

[Tellemurius]

No, Alkhemia.  When a creator agrees to host a Kickstarter Campaign, they sign a contract saying that they can and WILL be held responsible for any rewards, offered goods/services, and products that are listed.  If he 'jumps ship' as it is, Kickstarter, Amazon, and those who put the money forward can legally take him to court over the breach of contract. 

But this is game developement, creating software from scratch can take months or even years, and can often take longer than what was originally thought.  If we start putting our own expectations onto such things, then we become no better than the multi-billion dollar game publishing companies everyone likes to bad-mouth.

All I say is: Give him time.  Its been less than three months.  If nothing comes out in another three, then start to worry.

what he said, i just hope he comes out for a bit and say something to at least defend himself.


edit: Poysky edited the front page and is trying to get in contact.

[alexpoysky]

I had no idea he had gone dark like this. I'm trying to PM him all over, as I helped him out on the kickstart from an external point I.E marketting, NOT programming. meaning I helped him prepare the KS and subsecuent contract work with other parties, but don't have anything to do witht he project "proper", in either case I'm trying to find out what happened guys.

[Trollheiming]

I can't help but thinking that this feels a bit wrong. Kickstarter is for something you can kickstart into high gear. This appears to be a long-term development project, like DF itself, which ought to start slow and build.

What's your definition of 'kickstart'? Let me put it this way: I could work a full time job for the next five years very gradually adding bits and pieces to this as my little free time allowed (considering I was working 50-60 hours a week before embarking on this endeavor without any end in sight), and hope that someday I could build up enough of a following through gradual and sporadic bursts of activity to move forward.

Or, I could try crowd-funding ... For me, the choice is obvious, and it's definitely a 'kickstart'. No regrets.

This is begging for starting out slowly. You say there are many opinions on what "should" be a Kickstarter project, but it's simple, really. You should kickstart whatever you can reasonably provide. You have to admit that you are not selling gamers on what you have now, or what you expect to have in four months, or even what you expect to have in two years. If your Kickstarter is successful, remember that you sold your customers a decades-long vision. You are ethically locked into providing that. Better to go slow with a clean conscience.

@Trollheiming, you're entitled to your opinion. But frankly I'd rather not rise to the bait and validate that rant with a more extended answer. I think it's made rather clear on the Kickstarter that this is a long-term project, and I would be happy to make it even more explicit if there's any kind of ethical issue involved. I am going to go back to working now; if you have any further issues, please PM them to me.

Not to be annoying or anything, but... called it. 

I think $34,000 is hard for one person to blow through in six months. He's probably still living off those funds right now. And some college student who backed the project is eating ramen noodles right now. Until he attempts to explain, the appearance itself is rather ugly.

That being said, you would have to be a real Jerk to pursue legal action against someone who simply got in over his head. That is coming from someone who backed him for $500.

There's a point at which "in over your head" becomes "willfully negligent." He probably still has some funds left. Only he knows if a real product is in the pipeline; but if it isn't, there's no justification right now for not trying to distribute whatever he has left back to the funders.

So does he get to keep the money if he jump ship?

Realistically? Yeah.

[Tellemurius]

no you can take him to small claims if you have enough precedent.

[lordcooper]

I honestly don't give a shit if the game comes out six years from now, or even if it fails.  The way I see it, I chipped in cash so he'd have the opportunity to attempt to create the game.  If it takes ages to come out or he tries and fails, well, that's game development.  These things happen.  If he's tossed it on the scrap heap already after raising that much money though, then I have a problem with this.  And if he is still working on it, why isn't he communicating with backers?  Even ignoring the fact that several reward tiers focus around communication of sorts, it's kinda shitty to not at least toss up the occasional progress update.  Hell, Toady manages to do this almost every day while still keeping up a ferociously superhuman rate of development, even without the Kickstarter obligation.  Even a quick "Sorry guys, I grossly underestimated the amount of time this would take.  I've done X, am stuck on Y, expect an alpha update in about nine months" would be more than acceptable in my eyes.

[hemmingjay]

I think almost every back right now would be placated by some sort of communication, but instead it seems he has systematically has removed himself from the internet. There is still time to turn this around and get back on track with the community that supports him.

[Viken]

It may have not have been by choice.  We all know that life can take unexpected turns.  For example, the ZanMgt developers of Blockade Runner were all down with the flu the week before and after Christmas, and are still trying to pull themselves from the funk of illness over the holidays. 

In truth, we have no way of knowing what hapened until we're given some sort of information about it.

[burningpet]

It may have not have been by choice.  We all know that life can take unexpected turns.  For example, the ZanMgt developers of Blockade Runner were all down with the flu the week before and after Christmas, and are still trying to pull themselves from the funk of illness over the holidays. 

In truth, we have no way of knowing what hapened until we're given some sort of information about it.

Exactly my thoughts. If he got hit by a car, no one would have known to inform the forums/kickstarter backers.

I hope that's not the case and that he just went under the heavy load of life daily duties.

Any way, I cant remember if the kickstarter had a deadline attached, from my understanding, this was to be a long term project spanning several years.

Regarding kickstarter, i have said it before in the Castle story thread. the backing of a project is a donation and thus you can not do anything about people not delivering unless you can prove the money was raised on ill intent and was raised for other reasons other than having  the chance of developing a game (you cant). however, the Rewards levels which promise something in return for more money, are just an ordinary transaction and because of that any one can sue them. i think that because kickstarter handles and validate the transaction and the supplier, a good lawyer could also sue them too and win.

[Alkhemia]

But if they need to do a kickstarter in the first place they don't have a lot of money so not like you will get much out of suing them.

[hemmingjay]

Legal action is not the way to deal with this. Let's continue to support and give the benefit of the doubt to a long time Bay12 forum member. Let's try to be patient for just a little longer, hard as it may be. I think if another 30 days goes by without contact we can probably officially call it and then move on with a lesson learned and a friend lost. Maybe he will surprise all of the jaded folks?

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Dullard is likely hard at work and I find it ironic that we can't let a developer work on something he is passionate for without bitching about the speed. This is Dwarf Fortress's forum, for fuck sake. Need I remind anyone I've followed DF for nearing 7 years and have no qualms [yes, even the dark days where Toady was sporadic in logs!]? Seriously. Chill out, let the man work.

The KS being successful shouldn't be a reason to point fingers and say he's now all of a sudden going to decide to quit working on his project. This has been how he's worked on the project for a while, and now he has even more reason to work instead of deal with [this] forum silliness.

[hemmingjay]

That is great news! When did you last talk to him?

[Alkhemia]

Dullard is hard at work and I find it ironic that we can't let a developer work on something he is passionate for without bitching about the speed. This is Dwarf Fortress's forum, for fuck sake. Need I remind anyone I've followed DF for nearing 7 years and have no qualms? Seriously. Chill out, let the man work.

The KS being successful shouldn't be a reason to point fingers and say he's now all of a sudden going to decide to quit working on his project. This has been how he's worked on the project for a while, and now he has even more reason to work instead of deal with [this] forum silliness.

Please don't compare DF to this Tarn updates his blog every 3-5 with what he doing. Don't get me wrong I'm just wondering about the ramification of someone jumping ship is all.

[x2yzh9]

Dullard is hard at work and I find it ironic that we can't let a developer work on something he is passionate for without bitching about the speed. This is Dwarf Fortress's forum, for fuck sake. Need I remind anyone I've followed DF for nearing 7 years and have no qualms? Seriously. Chill out, let the man work.

The KS being successful shouldn't be a reason to point fingers and say he's now all of a sudden going to decide to quit working on his project. This has been how he's worked on the project for a while, and now he has even more reason to work instead of deal with [this] forum silliness.

Still, communication is a must for projects like this. Once you take peoples money well then you have a responsibility to communicate effectively to them what's going on, etc. Don't you think so?