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Author Topic: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart  (Read 79658 times)

nuova

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #105 on: June 07, 2012, 07:34:14 am »

Most notably I have completely coded a Fallout-themed game with a full combat system,
Link?

It has been taken down for some time, since it was an online game and after the end of the last plot arc I didn't have the time to GM for 20-ish people and handle college/life in general. I have the code sitting around somewhere on a CD, but I'm not too keen on digging it out with everything else I've got going on.

I'm actually trying to find any reason to believe what you promise is not vaporware. You present a feature list that puts Dwarf Fortress to shame, and promise an Alpha really soon, *and* expect money both now, and when it's released. Compared to the 4 years of fulltime DF production under the radar *without compensation*, and being one of several Bay 12 games (not to mention a huge precedessor - which surprisingly also had a smaller scope and feature list than what you are proposing) -- you seem to make Tarn Adams look like some programmer wannabe.

Which actually makes me think that it's not Tarn Adams that is inexperienced, and not able to judge his own abilities.

All that without any track record, and the only proof of programming skill similar to tons of libTCOD projects that were created on rec.games.roguelike.development for the past 10 years (most of them with a similar feature list). Not even a single 7DRL. So my question is:

What makes your project have any chances of success where so many others (countless during the lifetime of r.g.r.d) failed? What makes this different than any other vapor game? This is a serious question, because by opening a kickstarter project, you changed this from a hobby project into a serious pledge towards the people that donate money to you. It's a lot more serious responsibility (AFAIR looking at Kickstarter's terms it's also a legal liability) than just accepting donations. So either you have to have an ace up your sleeve (in which case I'm surprised you didn't pull it out yet), or you're inexperienced, not knowing what you get yourself into (and getting into a shitload ton of trouble).

Sorry for sounding so negative, but the moment you opened the kickstarter, things got real, and people deserve to have this kinds of questions answered.
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Lord Dullard

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #106 on: June 07, 2012, 08:16:51 am »

I'm actually trying to find any reason to believe what you promise is not vaporware. You present a feature list that puts Dwarf Fortress to shame, and promise an Alpha really soon, *and* expect money both now, and when it's released. Compared to the 4 years of fulltime DF production under the radar *without compensation*, and being one of several Bay 12 games (not to mention a huge precedessor - which surprisingly also had a smaller scope and feature list than what you are proposing) -- you seem to make Tarn Adams look like some programmer wannabe.

Which actually makes me think that it's not Tarn Adams that is inexperienced, and not able to judge his own abilities.

I think Tarn Adams could crush me under his heel in terms of his accomplishments. The man has my utmost respect and admiration. That does not make me feel afraid to be extremely ambitious with my own project.

Quote
-snip-

As for 'vaporware', as far as I know, that generally refers to a product that is never released in any form; since you can already download a tech demo of the world generator, it's a rather misleading term to use.

I am aware that running a Kickstarter, assuming that it is successful, makes this an obligation and not simply a hobby. I think that what you'd like to do is accuse me of presenting myself as an expert game designer when I'm not; on the contrary, my profile on Kickstarter specifically notes that I am an amateur, and I have mentioned the same in at least one dev video. There is an entire thread on the Creative Projects board here that started out with my original tinkering about with Cult two and half-ish years ago, so I would imagine that a lot of the folks here at B12 have seen exactly what kind of origins the game has. And no, it's not from some game developer from an experienced company.

Believe me, if I had the credentials to say 'I've worked on this, this, this and this' in my Kickstarter, I would. And it would certainly be receiving a lot more funding that way if I did. That's just the reality of the situation. I don't think I've unfairly presented myself as an extremely experienced designer.

Regardless, the very WORST thing I could do is to look at questions like yours and feel discouraged. Don't get me wrong, you have every right to ask them, and I can respect you for doing so; somebody's going to, sooner or later. It's maybe not the best way to present yourself to the B12 community as an escaped lunatic, but that's your own choice. What I'm going to do is get back to work so that I can present the building system in time; I'll let people judge that on its own merits, and you can do the same.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 08:18:57 am by Lord Dullard »
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bertix

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2012, 09:14:49 am »

I have confidence it wont be vaporware... (oh god please please please) feature list looks so good.
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Trefall

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #108 on: June 07, 2012, 09:44:17 am »

I think everyone putting a penny into this project is aware that it might never go out of beta, or even get to beta, and that's perfectly fine with me. Dwarf Fortress has been a lot of fun, and it's not in beta yet. These types of games have a different approach than the games you pick off the shelves in a store. They're never really finished, it's a constantly evolving project that just keeps expanding. I  bet we'll see simple versions of the systems first, much like how Tarn Adams has approach his ideas in Dwarf Fortress, and then slowly over time see more meat on those bones, and that's the way to do it with these huge complex games. Expand into perfection over time.

It's perfectly fine to be a doubter though, everyone can't be all geared up about this. Keeps it balanced!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 09:54:46 am by Trefall »
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Neonivek

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #109 on: June 07, 2012, 03:02:22 pm »

Halfway there to the minimum! (thanks to a sudden surge of 100-250 dollar donators)

Though I always love it when a project gets overfunded.
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Dr. Johbson

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #110 on: June 07, 2012, 03:06:08 pm »

Well.. I'm not sure if you'll be able to pull this off, but I'd rather give you a chance to prove me wrong, and hopefully this'll be great like you very much want it to be. Has this had any coverage anywhere, by the way? Because the kickstarter is doing very well.
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Neonivek

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #111 on: June 07, 2012, 03:17:50 pm »

Well.. I'm not sure if you'll be able to pull this off, but I'd rather give you a chance to prove me wrong, and hopefully this'll be great like you very much want it to be. Has this had any coverage anywhere, by the way? Because the kickstarter is doing very well.

It has had a bit of coverage by other sites, but what helps it also is that is has also been in development for over a year on and off and a lot of people have known about it since before the funding.
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Trefall

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #112 on: June 07, 2012, 03:21:18 pm »

Yeah, I've really enjoyed watching the progress thus far.
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TempAcc

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2012, 03:26:42 pm »

Yea, I think he provided us with enough material to give him a chance at it. I think projects like this should be encouraged, the kind that breaks the usual "conventions" that seem to be prevalent in open ended games today, IE overly simplified and generic features applied to a sandbox environment.

Also, I wouldn't say this game's intended feature list puts DF to shame in any way. The amount of complexity and depth DF's features offer is quite impressive. Just because he intends to allow the player to generate a customizable world, it doesn't mean he is going to make every individual sentient creature have its own thoughts and preferences, have each individual element have its own boiling point and reactions, beings with bodies composed of skin, fat, muscle, bone and nervous tissue that react in different ways to disease, etc.
All the features he briefly mentioned are reasonably implementable in a reasonable time frame, they just won't have the absurd complexity that we see in DF.

His kickstarter goal seems pretty reasonable as well. Its not like that one wurm-esque game which failed its kickstarter goal because the devs started by asking like, 300 grand. I forgot the name, there was a topic on this forum about it.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 03:32:54 pm by TempAcc »
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mendonca

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2012, 04:01:54 pm »

Posting to watch, and to say I'm really happy about the positive start to the Kickstarter.
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Neonivek

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #115 on: June 07, 2012, 04:25:27 pm »

Also, I wouldn't say this game's intended feature list puts DF to shame in any way.

To me both games will stand perfectly on their own.

There is a reason why Super Mario would always be better then a game that simply randomises Super Mario levels. It is focus.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #116 on: June 08, 2012, 04:40:30 pm »

Hi... I donated. The project looks amazing, let's do this! You're almost to the goal now, in only a few days!
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warhammer651

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #117 on: June 08, 2012, 05:03:19 pm »

donated some dosh. you better follow through on this
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Briggsy16

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #118 on: June 08, 2012, 05:03:52 pm »

Woah it's jumped up past $4k. You're gonna do this easily :D
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Neonivek

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Re: Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones Kickstart Ready! Link inside!
« Reply #119 on: June 08, 2012, 05:05:19 pm »

Woah it's jumped up past $4k. You're gonna do this easily :D

Yeah... Though the donations will probably dry up at a certain point... I could fully imagine this actually entering Overfunding territory.
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