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[Apollo Atlas]

I need a bit of help designing my entrance. At the moment i have a 4 wide stone fall trap in the front then behinad are cage traps and then weapon traps. I havent been attacked or sieged yet but I want to have, a design that could with stand a never ending siege of goblins. As well as let in the elven traders. Anyway the question is how do I design my entrance.

[Thorik]

Have a 3 wide entrance for caravans as your main for dwarves and caravans and block it with a bridge linked to a lever to close during siege.  Twisty hallway full of traps entrance can then be opened (with another bridge) leading them to their pointy doom.

Also for your main entrance, make a pasture inside and assign a tons of war animals to it.  When a thief comes they'll tear him up every time. 

[knutor]

Not sure you can do both.  Let in traders and seal off a siege.

I prefer the 2 entrance system. 

1.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

5x5 drawbridge house.  With murderholes.  With a drawbridge as main entrance, no traps, at this entrance.  Especially not the cage traps.  They seem to bork up the AI, especially if ya happen to cage trap the leader of the invasion.  I link that bridge to lever in my booze storage room.

2.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1x10 goblingrinder as back entrance.  This is for anyone caught outside while 1. goes up.  I then make another 1x10 goblingrinders directly under that one, to collect goblinite, off the ones that fall thru the hatches.  I use bone xbows loaded with wood bolts in the grinder, until I get better trap parts.

I paint the drawbridge area restricted, before I lower it after a siege.  To prevent atomizing friendlies.  Knutor

[i2amroy]

Just a note here, but if you are making goblin grinders and easier thing to do then making a second one underneath the first is simply to have a path that leads from the underneath the trap to a stairway in the middle of the goblin grinder. Then any goblins that fall down just path find their way back into the middle of the grinder.

As for an entrance way, since the weapon traps block wagons update I prefer having two entrances. One that I used for wagons, and one that I use for goblins. The wagon entrance is a much longer and winding path then the goblin one, so 90% of the invaders ignore it and simply beeline straight through the trap filled other one.

[Apollo Atlas]

@ i2amroy. Is that because the Ai pathfinding just takes the shortest route, and by 90% do you mean some goblins go for the wagon path, what can i do to stop them...

@knutor. I the deffinition of a nooby. with a draw bridge do you channel out underneath the bridge.I like the sound of it but i cant grasp how to make it.

 @Thorik. I like that, and this is proberly what i will do but, ais there anything sequence of events in which they make it through.

This is a simple question but will if you do the 3 door wide trick does that block goblins and allow wagons in.

Thanks for replies

[i2amroy]

AI do go for the shortest entrance the majority of the time, there are very few times when they won't (and if they do it's usually only a small portion of a siege/ambush, not the entire thing). As for keeping out the few that do come in then do this with your "wagon" path at some point.

Code: [Select]

X...^^^^^^^X
X..........X
X..........X
X..........X
X^^^^^^^...X
X..........X
X..........X
X..........X
X...^^^^^^^X
X..........X
X..........X
X..........X
X^^^^^^^...XAny invaders will cut straight across the traps, killing themselves, while the wagons will zig-zag their way around them. Merchant guards can probably deal with any few remaining that survive the traps or attack them at that point.

[DTF]

This is a simple question but will if you do the 3 door wide trick does that block goblins and allow wagons in.

Thanks for replies

Yes and no, doors block both - even 3 doors next to another will not let a wagon pass. Trolls and ogres can tear down doors though.

I the deffinition of a nooby. with a draw bridge do you channel out underneath the bridge.I like the sound of it but i cant grasp how to make it.

If you mean how to create a moat:
You either channel out (d->h) the area infront of the bridge before you build the bridge - since when it's build it counts as a building and you cannot designate digging areas on it even if it is raised.
Or if you have already built the bridge, dig upward ramps (d->r) from the level below. Afterwards, remove the ramps again to make the tiles impassable.
When you design the bridge (b->g) make sure you raise it in the right direction (w,a,d,s,x keys).

You could build stairs or ramps below the bridge area that lead to your grinder. When the bridge is raised, it reveals the stairs and blocks the path to your fortress - when it's lowered it leads to the depot.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Blue arrow: to the depot, red circle: to the grinder

[caddybear]

That's very elegant DTF, I'll be using it from now on. One of the easier ways of having two entrances indeed.

[Zale]

@DTF

That's quite brilliant.

[Apollo Atlas]

Very nice, and thank you for the picture... now i know what im doing..

While, your here if I can get one more, design for my fortress.... I have some goblins in cages at my entrance (they where child snacthers if that matters) and i want to make an arena, but im not qiute sure how to go about it.Like how to get my dwarf to go in kill, go out.

If theres any other little hints for a nooby i'd love to hear them aswell.

Edit: Im trying the bridge deal, ok so i go "q" into the lever to pull it to raise  the bridge (yes there linked )... I raise the bridge and it dissapears and i have seen a turkey walk over it... I was hoping it would raise to be one block high.... So what did i do wrong

[DTF]

Edit: Im trying the bridge deal, ok so i go "q" into the lever to pull it to raise  the bridge (yes there linked )... I raise the bridge and it dissapears and i have seen a turkey walk over it... I was hoping it would raise to be one block high.... So what did i do wrong

There's two types of bridges, drawbridges that raise in a certain direction and create an impassable, undestructible wall if raised and retracting bridges that simply vanish (imagine like window shades rolling up). You have to select what kind of bridge you want to build when designating it - you have built a retracting bridge which is the default setting and has to be changed with the w,a,d,x keys in order to design a drawbridge.

[slink]

Previous to 34.10 I used a 3-wide passage full of traps for everyone, with raising bridges at both ends.  Eventually it would feature a section of upright spear traps powered by a Dwarf-on-a-lever, to grind up kobolds.

In 34.10 I started using two entrances, one winding trap-free corridor for the wagons, and one straight for the invaders.  The straight one was designed as above.  Both had raising bridges to seal them.  Then I reverted to an older design for the caravans.  I run a tunnel almost to the edge of the map, exiting to the surface via ramps.  The ramps which come to the surface are just outside the final location where you can build a wall.  I build a wall behind the ramps, which extends out one tile to each side of the ramps.  Then I build a raising bridge along each side of the final path to the edge.  I roof over the area that will be enclosed once the bridges are raised, and raise the bridges.  Then I floor over the grass so no trees will grow to block the wagons.  The width of this was originally 3 tiles but two wagons travelling in opposite directions cannot pass in this size corridor, at least not on ramps and perhaps never, so now they are 5 tiles wide.  6 is probably safer but I prefer odd-symmetry and would have to build 7, so I am trying 5 right now.  My hope is that if the centers of the wagons can pass without touching another wagon, then the edges will be able to slide over each other.  This has not been tested yet.

Code: [Select]

b=raised bridge
w = wall
f = floor
r = ramp leading down

edge of map is to the left

bbbbbw
ffffrw
ffffrw
ffffrw
ffffrw
ffffrw
bbbbbw

Edit: The point of this entrance is that as long as your depot is not accessible from another entrance, caravans will always spawn in the enclosed area and be perfectly safe.  Migrants and diplomats will still need to use the other entrance because almost all of the time they will not spawn inside the enclosed area.  I think just once I got the migrants also coming in that way, but that was very unusual.

[WCG]

I don't like to do things too gimmicky,... and yes, I'll probably pay for that. 

But I've got a large, walled surface compound, with a moat around it. Traders enter over a bridge (not too far from the edge of the map, but not so close as to be a game exploit). They then travel between two walls for more than half the width of my compound, cross another bridge (a retractable one, this time), then turn left to arrive in my trade depot.

If the traders are under attack, I can close the first bridge temporarily, to shield them from arrow fire. Then, I'll let goblins over the first bridge, then close both bridges. That will make a shooting gallery for my marksdwarves on the level above, shooting through fortifications. And since that second bridge is retractable, I can also set up siege engines in the far corner of my compound and shoot down the length of that goblin trap, too. (So far, I haven't had time to work on siege engines.)

That's the plan, anyway. I've heard that Elite goblin bowmen will decimate my marksdwarves, right through their fortifications. (I've had goblin bowmen, but apparently they weren't Elite.) But it seems a little more fun than just setting traps, though I have had traps while the fortress was under construction (and I still have them at the north entrance).

Building destroyers won't be able to get to the bridge, over the moat, when raised - not unless they can fly. Well, flying enemies will be a huge danger, anyway. And if I'm under siege, caravans won't be able to get out. I suppose I should make a second, secret entrance, and only open the bridges to that in an emergency.

Of course, problems like that are fun, right?

[Berlioz]

Edit: changed to <code> after complains about my design being "abstract art".
I just started playing a few days back, but I experimented with different designs and tactics, some from the Dwarven Compendium of Everything aka the wiki. In 34.10 you cannot place traps or the caravan won't get through, so the main way doesn't have any.
The main design principles are an easy to build but effective defense, that can be used from the very beginning just with a few stones. It has to allow access for the caravan and the way for friendlies must be as short as possible. Plus it has to be easy to expand later for better defense (ballistas, better weapon traps, water/magma, protection against master archers, etc.).
Legend:
# - Wall
o - empty moat
= - drawbridge (usually with moat below to protect from buildingdestroyers), numbered
F - fortifications to shoot through
^ - ramp to get out of the moat
P - pressure plate, links with bridge 3
B - optional ballista for more firepower
D - chained wardogs against thieves
T - trading Depot

Code: [Select]

Outside
===1=== drawbridge with a moat under it to close up the fortress completely in an emergency.
#     ####################################
#   ^                    o         F B   #
#   ooooooooooooooooooo  o         F     #
#   o                    o         F B   #
#   o  ooooooooooooooooooo         F     #
#   o                    o         F B   #
#=2=ooooooooooooooooooo  o         F     #
#   P                    o         F B   #
#=3=#ooooooooooooooooooooo         F     #
#   #==============4============== F     # protection bridge, raise against enemy master archers
#   #FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF     #
#   #      place marksdwarves here       #
#   ################   ###################
#   #              #   #
#   ################   ###
#     D D  TTTTT  ##
#          TTTTT       Fortress
#     D D  TTTTT  ##
####################

Drawbridge 2 here is used to redirect the opponents through the serpentine and the lever for it should be easily reachable. Pull it asap when you see an opponent, since your dwarves can still go through the serpentine to get inside.
Line the serpentine with weapon traps, you can include some cagetraps if you wish, but put them nearer to the fortress. Of course the choice of traps is ultimately yours, but I found weapon traps to be best, because they don't need reloading (just some cleaning from time to time). The room in front of the ballistas offer additional protection, but mostly serves as a buffer to keep enemies away, since siege operators are civilians and would abandon their equipment otherwise.
This is how it works:
The opponents will run along the serpentine, lined with weapon traps and in sight of your marksdwarves. This should take care of most opponents and even when they manage to dodge most stuff they will eventually dodge into the moat and have to climb up the ramp just to start the trap-run again. Chutes-and-ladders anyone!?
If they manage to reach the Pressure plate they will raise drawbridge 3 (don't forget to link them!) thus denying entrance to the fortress. They have to run back through the traps again.
The protection bridge 4 in front of the marksdwarves is unimportant in the beginning, but when you start encountering those evil master marksgoblins you may want to raise it to shield your dwarves completely.
The dogs are against thieves and snatchers. To protect them from goblin archers and dragon fire they're out of sight.
It's very good when you start your fortress, because it works only with a few bridges and a pressure plate. Start with only the serpentine and the first three bridges. Add weapon traps with cheap weapons like obsidian swords and you're good to go. Later line up your marksdwarves for good practice on living targets and ballistas for more firepower. You can add water and magma to the moats, etc. as you go along.
You can make the serpentine as long as you want and add more curves of course. There's a lot of room for more defenses, if you like to enhance it, just be careful to let caravans through (they won't even travel over a pressure plate). This design will be tested and improved with more experience on my part.

[knutor]

Edit that and put the diagram in a code block.  Code blocks, will save and respect spacing.  To make a code block, click the # button, above the smileys, in the message window.  Knutor