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[Neonivek]

I've always taken SU as a slice-of-life show, whose purpose is... to portray the normalcy of boring everyday life...

This is why I don't like SU. I'm not really sure why people want to see that kind of thing.

i find it completely fair that you don't like slice of life, but i can't imagine how you can seriously say "i don't see why people would like it".

Because someone JUST described slice of life as "Intentionally boring" to someone who probably doesn't know what slice of life is.

And frankly "Intentionally boring" is a really bad description and is why slice of lifes are often really bad (What a coincidence that the good ones aren't long boring slogs)

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Lol, I do know what Slice of Life is--I've seen waaaay too much of it when I was completing my Creative Writing minor. Slice of Life is literally the opposite of what makes good a story. No plot development or conflict, obstacles that seem petty or arbitrary, and sometimes lacking a strong central thread or message.

Steven Universe's world and sci-fi elements are top-notch, extremely original, and dazzling at times. A lack of a strong plot is something that I personally hate. Adventure Time is similar in that regard, but shows pretty intense character and even world development throughout its series... and predictability, it's worst episodes are the ones that are the most random and/or idyllic. Of which there are a fair amount.

In short, I hate slice of life. I have seen very few good ones, because frankly, life is boring.

[Neonivek]

The thing is Urist...

Most slice of life shows are VERY alien to human experience.

Things stick to people in real life and become lingering thoughts as the day or days pass. OR they allow it to fester inside them as it takes its quiet toll.

In Slice of Life... typically (because Slice of Life is like Romantic Comedies... the bulk are terrible) nothing sticks. Nothing can penetrate the skull of these characters. If something sticks it is typically backstory or continuous from the past.

Hey remember in Bojack Horsemen where he starts on Self-help tapes and tries to change himself little by little that way? In a Slice of Life if they somehow listened to those tapes they probably wouldn't do anything and that is that.

Which is why I challenge the whole "Real life" aspect of Slice of Life... because nothing is further from the truth... in fact it is an insulting statement to anyone who is a living being. (which is why I think the main audience for Slice of Life are aliens and robots. They would be the only ones who could misunderstand human experiences enough to buy into it)

---

But that is why I don't like most Slice of Lifes anyway and hope Steven Universe avoids them like the plague.

Slice of Life typically devolve into anti-plot and anti-characterization.

Why? Well that is a good question. Because mostly the good slice of lifes tended to have an overall message of "Life is good". So it would present a drama that would upset what was otherwise an ordinary life, and thus the final act returns everything to normal, maybe a bit better than before.

So other shows imitate that arc, but don't really understand it.

As well the reason why it is "Intentionally boring" is because... it wasn't supposed to be intentionally boring at first. It is supposed to be an appreciation of the little things and the little moments that make up your life and how they add up together. Well that or sort of thematic scene setting (There is a reason why some shonen shows start off with people eating breakfast)

Suffice it to say... The issue with Slice of Lifes is that there is a LOT of imitation, but very little understanding of how those elements are meant to be used.

They are Battlefield Earth Dutch Angles.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Bojack Horseman could be so much better than it is. And I LOVE Bojack Horseman, I respect what it has to say about success and life in general, but it could say all that and more with a more central plot. More and more we're seeing TV shows that arent afraid to do that, that arent afraid to end after fewer seasons because they've said their bit.

Also, you're pretty wrong. The most famous slice of life cartoons are, in fact, extremely relatable. I.E. King of The Hill, Hey Arnold, etc.

Those tend to be shows I like, but don't love. The only reason "Slice of life"s persist is because they're clever enough to create an alternate reality by which to create new rules for characters that are funny. Distinctly separate from our own reality.

In the end, even the most frozen shows, in which things change as little as possible between episodes, some development is required. Bojack Horseman is actually particularly bad about it, because they'll develop Bojack and just have him regress. Ugh.

EDIT: Also, being episodic doesnt necessarily mean the show is slice-y.

[Neonivek]

The most famous slice of life cartoons are, in fact, extremely relatable. I.E. King of The Hill, Hey Arnold, etc.

Those aren't Slice of Lifes those are Sitcoms.

Even transported into anime genres they aren't slice of lifes.

Yes that includes Hey Arnold... which is the most grounded of examples... But wouldn't qualify.

EDIT: Also, being episodic doesnt necessarily mean the show is slice-y.

Silly you didn't catch on did you? Most Slice of Lifes might have continuity, strong continuity. But they often treat their shows like they were episodic.

I'll put it this way. In the Slice of Life I am watching the ONE thing our main character wanted was someone who could relate to his experiences. He finds it... and ignores it... on and on.

Why? Because that happened last episode

[Urist McScoopbeard]

... Alright, so go ahead and name some slice of life shows for me then.

Slice of life isn't a genre... it's a way story is told.

EDIT: It IS considered a genre for manga/anime, but I have never seen it referred to as such outside of that context.

EDIT2: Furthermore... Something that is a slice of life is exactly that: showing a person's day. Bojack Horseman is a great example. Both of it's positive and negative aspects. Adventure Time as well--it's worst episodes anyways.

[Neonivek]

That is because some genres in anime do not apply to Western ones so to speak, even when they qualify.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For example Magical Girl is considered a genre (likely not in Japan, but whatever). While "Star versus the forces of evil" is clearly a magical girl show, we don't apply it.

Yet if Star Versus the Forces of Evil was an anime it would be a magical Girl Anime. Which is the difference between it and Hey Arnold.

But let me see... Honey and Clover IIRC, the Prequel to "The Cat Returns", That show about a kid who sees Yokai and gives them their names back.

>_< Yeah my memory is really fuzzy on names. (Then again... a lot of them aren't translated)

As for "It isn't a genre, it is a way story is told"

That sounds like something that can define a genre alright.

I mean... What is a horror that isn't told in a way to horrify? I mean... I guess that would be a documentary.

But Hey Arnold's tendency to use exaggerated characters and constant zaniness is somewhat what loses its Slice of Life status. It has episodes that sort of slow down and tries to be real... but then again a lot of shows dive into other genres for an episode.

Then again is that Animal Crossing movie part of the Slice of Life genre? Hmmm I'd have to check...

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Someone being murdered in a story does not make that story a murder mystery.

Likewise, a show whose humor is based upon situational comedy does not disqualify it from being a slice of life.

See... the thing with "slice of life" is that it's almost always used a pejorative. That's because most TV show episodes take place in a day--so if that were the only qualifier, then every television show would be slice of life. Take 24 for example. The whole SEASON happened in a single day, yet that is not at all a slice of life. Every story is showing you a slice of a character's life--yet slice of life generally refers to something so boring and mundane as to be pointless to actually show someone.

Also, I'd argue that the use of Melodrama is a clear indicator of something being slice of life.

EDIT: Generally speaking, slice of life is only ever used to describe something bad. Good shows are genre defining and are rarely thought about as slice of life, even if that's technically what they're doing.

[Neonivek]

Someone being murdered in a story does not make that story a murder mystery

Yes... it is almost like "How it is told" creates a genre

Slice of Life is DEFINATELY not a pejorative no more then Romantic Comedy is... but yes it is often said in negative tones... due to the general quality level of the genre.

Horror escapes this. Even though... It probably is the worst off in terms of being terrible in general with a few stand outs...

Then again that is why you don't judge an entire genre based on the bad examples... though be wary if you see that genre pop up

a show whose humor is based upon situational comedy does not disqualify it from being a slice of life.

Yes but there is sort of a difference between how a Slice of Life holds itself and how a Situational Comedy holds itself.

The Yokai series I was talking about is frequently comedic. The difference is that when it is serious (and it is every single episode) it is serious.

Hey Arnold tries to defuse the more serious moments with zaniness. Helga cannot just admit she loves Arnold any ordinary way... she must wax poetic with long grandstanding speeches about her love and how great he is.

A show definitely can be both a situational comedy AND a slice of life... But it doesn't achieve it just by being a situational comedy alone. Otherwise Slice of Life is just a setting "Takes place in real life".

---

I'll put it this way... Why isn't Sailormoon a Slice of Life even though it takes place in reality in an ordinary world with a school? Is it because it deals with supernatural qualities?

Why isn't School Days a slice of life? It has no supernatural aspects and its plots are ones you would see in real life. In fact its plot is very similar to Hey Arnold.

But then again I think I know what definition you are using:

A Slice of life is a show that takes place in a mostly real life setting where the main source of plot/drama is from real life situations.

So... Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a Slice of Life

[Max™]

I think this is the same problem I had, where the meaning implied by the words led me to describe Grimgar as "trapped in a fantasy slice of life" but it doesn't actually fit the shape of the SoL category at all apparently. Seems like a show about people doing day to day stuff and going about their normal lives without a focus on zany situations (friends?) or dystopian horror (seinfeld) would come across as little episodic slices from a life or lives.

Steven Universe has plot arcs, learning about being a gem/battling gem monsters > learning where the gem monsters came from > uncovering the background of the world and where the characters fit in > uncovering the relations to the war and why the rebellion happened, with the sorta cross-arc links like peridot across the first two, trying to find jasper in the second and third, and the links from revelations due to both coming across into the war framing.

Compare that to something like the old school Warner Bros Cartoons, here's bugs screwing with people, here's the roadrunner/coyote, here's sylvester and tweety, every time they come up they're just dropped into whatever situation they're in and they do whatever they're doing, but it doesn't really carry on outside of running gags like the coyote having ever sillier purchases from acme. There isn't even a consistent time period for the setting, the same bugs shows up in caveman type stories, war era stories, victorian stuff, far future buck rogers stuff, and so forth.

Have one where the episodes all kinda stand on their own but have a generally consistent time period and setting and we can see if it would fit slice of life.

King of the Hill has the whole progression over the series from "the boy ain't right" to the resolution with them grilling together.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

-snip-

... Honestly, my man. Everything you just said is so incredibly backwards. How a story is told does not a television genre make. There isn't a flashback genre or a narration genre. Genre describes the content of the show (as well as "form" and "style" though slice of life implies only that you are being shown a person's average day.) AND since everything is in fact, a slice of somebody's life, it is not a suitable reference by which to categorize a show.

Is it a pejorative? Maybe. I use it as one for sure. As a pejorative it comes to mean, as previously stated, something incredibly mundane and generally without conflict, with no direction, etc. and I have heard it used as such many a time.

Horror is a genre. When someone says something is horror you can expect to be scared, with slice of life you get no further information about the subject.

And also... What? A situtational comedy achieves everything because it is just that. Can you imagine The Office, but instead we just follow Jim around all day, he works, he gets groceries, he goes home, he kisses Pam, he falls asleep. That's slice of life. I mean... the only way to really depict it is as akin to soap operas.

Also, Hey Arnold could be very serious. Exploring the serious through comedy does not at all lessen the impact of a message.

Listen. At this point, I've become too lost to really hold any shows up as an example, but I'm an entirely confused as to your definition of slice of life, and it's context within the literary world.

Here's the definition, or one of many very similar ones: "A narrative technique in which a seemingly arbitrary sequences of events in a character's life are presented, often lacking plot development, conflict and exposition, and often having an open ending." -- Wikipedia

Nothing in that definition is good storytelling. Nothing in there makes me care or imparts any meaningful knowledge to me, and is thus, fucking worthless in the most literary sense.

AND, let's take it a step further--because Wikipedia provides not one, but two really good definitions. The other one is, "A very realistic depiction of everyday experiences in art and entertainment." Which is whatever. That part, I don't like either--as you can't really achieve that (and you shouldn't want to frankly.) The point is, I don't know what the fuck we're talking about any more. Literally, no idea. My assertion here is that "Slice of Life" is an experimental form of literature in which, nothing is said and no story is told in an attempt to impart some meaning from chance or lethargic non-action. Therefore, any show conforming to that is inherently worse off and has to work a lot harder to keep me interested. You can argue that is indeed what makes for bad writing.

To further address your last point, what you're describing is essentially the pseudo-genre of Literary Fiction. Another extremely bullshit idea that's stemmed from academia's poor handling of creative writing subjects. There is nothing more boring, dull, and downright bad than where our mundane reality reigns supreme and average people follow its inherent rules while attempting to solve ordinary problems.

I no longer have really much to say about any one cartoon in particular at this point. Steven Universe is a good show. Mostly because of it's world building. BUT, slice of life in television, and cartoons in particular are--to me--what makes television a vast wasteland.

[Neonivek]

... Honestly, my man. Everything you just said is so incredibly backwards. How a story is told does not a television genre make.

I think there is a different in how we are defining our terms here.

Since what I said seems rather straight forward to "me". Then again I am me, so that is easy.

You instead took it, fairly might I add, as me saying that the medium through which a story is told is what makes genre.

When what I mean is more the framing and pacing can define a genre. A horror shot like a comedy, typically won't be a horror.

So I don't think we are so much disagreeing MOSTLY... but that we aren't on the same page.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Okay well firstly, I just gave you THE definition(s) of "Slice of Life." I mean... thems the breaks.

Second, genre is actually fairly nebulous insomuch as different genres actually combine often. Unfortunately for your example, Horror and Comedy cross over quite well. Look at Shaun of the Dead, Zombieland, even Krampus. Funny and scary. Genre is defined chiefly by content.

[Neonivek]

Unfortunately for your example, Horror and Comedy cross over quite well. Look at Shaun of the Dead, Zombieland, even Krampus. Funny and scary. Genre is defined chiefly by content.

Counter Example: Addams Family

Cross over can apply to any genre... you can mix and match anything.

You can even have a Action Comedy.

Yet even Shaun of the dead doesn't frame everything as a comedy.

Mind you there is one movie that intentionally misframed the movie (I forgot what it is called... American Psycho? I forget), where inspite the movie being framed as if our hero was right... you will slowly realize what a monster he is.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

No, not at all a counter example. You're just confirming my point.

EDIT: Not at all relevant to genre and that doesn't sound much like American Psycho at all.