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[smjjames]

I have but one question, who's Bill?

[Neonivek]

The evil and cruel Dr. Von Reichter, a member of the SS and the Nazi party, is an expert in genetic engineering. He initially began his work in concentration camps during World War II, implanting cybernetic organs in the bodies of dead prisoners in an attempt to bring them back to life to serve in the Führer's army. However, the Allied forces intervened to defeat the Nazis, so he fled to South America, where he once again continued his sinister experiments.

It's good to know Argentina plays up the Nazi thing in their fiction.

Also she's a female superhero with a male secret identity. That's pretty cool.

When I was a kid, I thought she was a man (well male child) put into a female body as part of Reichter's experiment.

It actually makes a lot of sense considering a lot of the other elements.

But to my knowledge no, she is a woman who can oddly switch between a male or female persona with very little effort. I say to my knowledge because it wouldn't surprise me with this series.

Though given she is a vampire (sort of) in the comic, the Cartoon retains some semblance of this element but tones it down, I guess it would make less sense.

[WillowLuman]

From my childhood I remember wacthing only Samurai Jack and Last Airbender. All the other stuff aired just filled the time between those two for me. All the other cartoons I saw I watched during past two years.

In all fairness your a 2000s kid... outside a few select good shows there was nothing good on.

They had a few good ones on PBS: namely Arthur, Word Girl (though that came a bit later) and Cyberchase.
On KidsWB (which was the other one I watched because we didn't have cable), there was the Jackie Chan Adventures, "The Batman", Xiolin Showdown, and Yugi-Oh (which looking back on wasn't that great, but I ate that shit up in gradeschool).
On Nickelodeon (did get cable back when we moved) there's Fairly Odd Parents, Danny Phantom, Avatar, and a few Marvel shows that were fairly decent but didn't last long.

On subject of actual Anime, that sounds about true for media in general (and having not seen much but done a research paper that involved Anime, it seems to be prevalent there). But I'd highly recommend Ghibli if you're looking for positive depictions of women.

On the subject of Avatar, several arse-kicking non-sexualized female characters who get a ton of development, as well as perhaps one of the best female villains of all time. And the style is more different than you'd think at first glance.

Kuvira is awesome. I just wish they hadn't saved her character development for one of the very last scenes she's in though. Before that she's pretty much cardboard dictator who is really good at dancing. She was designed to be the 'anti-Korra' iirc.

I was more referring to Azula, but Kuvira is indeed awesome.

[Neonivek]

No I understand Kuvira wasn't important to its conclusion. Her response to the ending wasn't to reflect her feelings but rather to show the spiritual and emotional growth of Korra.

I actually found her involvement with the ending to be really weird and out of place, especially since... if she wasn't evil... She easily could have been the powerful benevolent despot that could have protected the Earth Kingdom's best interest from the world's influence that constantly tries to subvert them because they are weaker... Her co-operation and freedom would have been absolutely vital to the resolution of the war.

But I guess... Shattering them all into independent city states and thus eliminating the larger power struggle is far superior... Hey how many city states in the Earth Kingdom are poor and are suffering from Famine who won't get food now because you dissolved their larger connection to eachother? But naw Large countries are EVIL!!!

Mind you I didn't mind that aspect. I KNEW they were making a mistake as far as how it would work in real life... But this is Avatar land, I am sure everyone is more then happy to share their food, work together against bandits, and help eachother in their time of need. Rather then in real life where the war would make each city care only for themselves. I WISH things would go as smoothly in real life as they do in Avatar Land. Even the Kuvira and the Queen weren't as bad as their real life counterparts.

As for Azula's development at the end... I felt it was well foreshadowed (mind you she was defeated pretty easily... I honestly think she should have put up more of a fight)

Mostly because Azula to me didn't change near the end she was just like she always was. The issue? She defeated all her enemies, she subjugated everyone who would betray her or put her down, and she was surrounded by no one but loyal followers. Her paranoia and constant planning which was a virtue and absolutely essential during the war was detrimental during "peace".

Which is actually quite common of militaristic regimes. It is why Pirates are often ex-military officers.

[Sheb]

I haven't followed "Western" animations much(anime even less) and I dont know many really good ones besides South Park, but I've read cartoons. My favorites are  Moebius (Jean Giraud) and Jean-Claude Mézières - for Blueberry and Valerian.

Going to act all pedantic here, but Moebius is his name for his more... fantsy stuff, like the hermetic garage, or the Incal. We call him Giraud for Blueberry.

[Caz]

I was more referring to Azula, but Kuvira is indeed awesome.

Oh damn, my mind just went straight to the second avatar series I guess.

Azula was awesome. Her arc in the comics was pretty good as well.

[Caz]

I actually found her involvement with the ending to be really weird and out of place, especially since... if she wasn't evil... She easily could have been the powerful benevolent despot that could have protected the Earth Kingdom's best interest from the world's influence that constantly tries to subvert them because they are weaker... Her co-operation and freedom would have been absolutely vital to the resolution of the war.

I think she went totally power-mad after uniting most of the Earth Kingdom. 3 years of conquest could change anyone pretty severely. I also think she wanted to stick it to Suyin for refusing to help unite the Earth Kingdom in the first place, so there was a definitely a grudge there. Then there was the thing where Korra+Kuvira agreed to fight for Zaofu and then the Beifong side screwed up the agreement, causing her to invade.

Also being able to drive a 25-story super mech with a disintegrating cannon would make anyone into a psychotic murderer, imo. Power corrupts. Really easy to start shooting people when they're just little specks at your feet.

[Neonivek]

Let me see... a good western animation movie... Outside Disney.

"Superman Versus the Elite" happens to be not only a good movie that explains the American "GRITTY!!!" mindset but happens to probably be the best argument for why people like Superman.

Seriously, if your idea of Superman is some overpowered character who solves everything instantly... You might want to watch this. Sure you might not like Superman, but you will understand the crux of what he is about.

I actually found her involvement with the ending to be really weird and out of place, especially since... if she wasn't evil... She easily could have been the powerful benevolent despot that could have protected the Earth Kingdom's best interest from the world's influence that constantly tries to subvert them because they are weaker... Her co-operation and freedom would have been absolutely vital to the resolution of the war.

I think she went totally power-mad after uniting most of the Earth Kingdom. 3 years of conquest could change anyone pretty severely. I also think she wanted to stick it to Suyin for refusing to help unite the Earth Kingdom in the first place, so there was a definitely a grudge there. Then there was the thing where Korra+Kuvira agreed to fight for Zaofu and then the Beifong side screwed up the agreement, causing her to invade.

Also being able to drive a 25-story super mech with a disintegrating cannon would make anyone into a psychotic murderer, imo. Power corrupts. Really easy to start shooting people when they're just little specks at your feet.

I understand that is EXACTLY what happened. I mean if she never got corrupted her "invasion" would have been for the better. Kouvira though to me wasn't corrupted by power but corrupted by the compromises she had to make with herself to achieve her goals. It was her drive to achieve what needed to be done at all costs is what got her in the end.

That is why she is the counterpart to Korra. She is her drive without any of the grounding.

I actually would have liked a bit more Kouvira at the end... a sort of sequence about Kouvira.. but I understand the ending isn't about Kouvira she is completely unimportant.

"Kouvira tried to kill me, I can't believe she did that"

That was HONESTLY where I disliked the character... Because REALLY MAN? In your mind she isn't taking over because of some petty revenge scheme.

This fight is bigger then you.

I think the Framing was sort of weak for it anyway. I mean really? A hostage was expected to work on Kouvira? and this was meant to show her character becoming irredeemable? Sorry but no...

The willingness to sacrifice those you care about for the greater good isn't a evil trait. If anything she should have always been willing to sacrifice him. Yeah it SUCKS for you, but it doesn't mean she betrayed your trust or your love. If anything you should have been offering your life to her through that radio "They captured me, but do whatever it takes for the earth kingdom". If anything he betrayed Kouvira.

[Radio Controlled]

It would be interesting if they ever did a follow-up to this (say, the next avatar) and they show how (parts of) the earth kingdom have dissolved into chaos as independent city-states constantly struggle with each other.

[Caz]

I understand that is EXACTLY what happened. I mean if she never got corrupted her "invasion" would have been for the better. Kouvira though to me wasn't corrupted by power but corrupted by the compromises she had to make with herself to achieve her goals. It was her drive to achieve what needed to be done at all costs is what got her in the end.

That is why she is the counterpart to Korra. She is her drive without any of the grounding.

I actually would have liked a bit more Kouvira at the end... a sort of sequence about Kouvira.. but I understand the ending isn't about Kouvira she is completely unimportant.

"Kouvira tried to kill me, I can't believe she did that"

That was HONESTLY where I disliked the character... Because REALLY MAN? In your mind she isn't taking over because of some petty revenge scheme.

This fight is bigger then you.

I think the Framing was sort of weak for it anyway. I mean really? A hostage was expected to work on Kouvira? and this was meant to show her character becoming irredeemable? Sorry but no...

The willingness to sacrifice those you care about for the greater good isn't a evil trait. If anything she should have always been willing to sacrifice him. Yeah it SUCKS for you, but it doesn't mean she betrayed your trust or your love. If anything you should have been offering your life to her through that radio "They captured me, but do whatever it takes for the earth kingdom".

I agree with that, and don't think that Kuvira firing on Baatar was anything like the 'moral event horizon' that most people thought it was. They were at war. She probably made orders that lead to deaths every single day, and she had a chance to win it immediately by destroying the building that contained the Avatar. Why should she back down just because the soldier in the building is also her fiance? She would expect any of her officers to put their feelings to the side for their cause, so what was so different about her? She was single-minded in uniting the Earth Empire and really believed that it would be for the betterment of the world. After the chaos left by Zaheer, it's not hard to believe.

Edit: though in my head-canon she missed the shot because she couldn't bear to look while firing, so

[Erkki]

I haven't followed "Western" animations much(anime even less) and I dont know many really good ones besides South Park, but I've read cartoons. My favorites are  Moebius (Jean Giraud) and Jean-Claude Mézières - for Blueberry and Valerian.

Going to act all pedantic here, but Moebius is his name for his more... fantsy stuff, like the hermetic garage, or the Incal. We call him Giraud for Blueberry.

Ahh yeah, I just read his Arzak albums yesterday and didn't realize that hes indeed just "Jean Giraud" in Blueberries.  His work is absolutely superb.

[wobbly]

Oh, if we're talking comics as well as animation, anyone like Jhonen Vasquez's work? Johnny the Homicidal Maniac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_the_Homicidal_Maniac) is particularly good if you like dark comedy. Quite gruesome & dark but very funny if your into that stuff. Also did Invader Zim for anyone who watched the series.

[WillowLuman]

How could I have forgotten about Invader Zim? That was on in the 2000s, though I only found out about it after it was cancelled.

[Neonivek]

Invader Zim kind of made me realize how limited adult cartoons kind of are.

Because Invader Zim was incredibly popular with adults, Adventure Time is incredibly popular with adults.

But cartoons marketed towards adults are all just obscene comedies or obscene shows.

Ok I should clarify that I mean Cartoon TV shows... There are plenty of good movies that are clearly marketed more to adults then children.

Mind you, I don't like Invader Zim. It is a great show, it just isn't for me.

[wobbly]

Not exactly true. I mean it may be true of invader zim where it's funny but the jokes get repetitive (I watched the series as a marathon which exasperated it a bit) but something like the Max if you've seen or read it has a fair amount of depth & psychology to it.