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[Sirus]

I'm too much of a romantic idealist to root for the villain most of the time. I might be able to understand why the villain feels the way he/she/it feels, and feel that the villain is an awesome character, but in most cases I root for the good guys.

[kaijyuu]

Hrm, can't think of one in recent memory where I did. Well except maybe a couple MLP episodes where the moral was backwards and I rooted for the person who was "wrong."


There are some villains I root for because I love to hate them, though. No one songs awesome villain songs like Gaston!

[Pnx]

I remember when Vector livestreamed the Hunchback of Notre Dame, we all started rooting for Frollo when he tries to kill Quasimodo at the end.

That was hilarious.

[Sirus]

What? Why?! D:

[kaijyuu]

What? Why?! D:

Just check his song!

[Sirus]

If we judged villains by how good their song was, then Gaston would have been an awesome villain. In reality he was a self-absorbed, misogynistic illiterate who abused old men.

[Pnx]

What? Why?! D:

Just check his song!

There's a bit more to it really, you kinda had to be there to be honest, Vector was basically showing off the movie to show off some of the things the subtle things they did there, and to talk about how they Disney'd the original work.

Frollo loses a lot of his character development, Quasimodo is no longer deaf, Esmerelda was rather ditzy (I kind of hated her as a character until I realized that she was basically just an immature teenage girl), and Phoebus... well he's basically the worst of them all. In the movie he's an Aryan (which is why we called him Aryan Phoebus), and basically The Hero! In the book he's not an Aryan, he's not really much of a Hero (though Esmerelda views him as one), he's a total jerk and he's actually engaged to be married, not that that stops him from trying sex up Esmerelda.

EDIT: Oh yes, and then there's the fact that that song was basically the best part of the entire movie.

[kaijyuu]

If we judged villains by how good their song was, then Gaston would have been an awesome villain. In reality he was a self-absorbed, misogynistic illiterate who abused old men.

All of that supports his awesome villain status.

[Sirus]

You and I have different definitions of "awesome villain", it seems. I couldn't wait for Gaston to get killed off because I disliked him so much

You want an awesome villain, look at Jaffar. Or Azula from Avatar.

[kaijyuu]

There are two ways to reach Awesome Villain status for me:

1) Be utterly despicable but logical. No "evil for evil's sake," but just be a humungous asshole in a way that pushes all my rage buttons. These are the ones I "love to hate." Gaston fits in that category.
2) Have the right ideas but wrong execution. A noble, logical goal and/or philosophy but the methods they take don't justify the means. These are ones I sympathize with yet realize they have to be stopped. Syndrome from Incredibles fits this category.

And of course both need well developed motivation. Amon from Korra could've fit #2 but I didn't sympathize with his backstory nearly enough.


Jaffar was manipulative and fun but I didn't really care too much about what he wanted. And Azula just fills me with loathing.

[Sirus]

Eh. I thought Syndrome was mostly a whiny brat with a vendetta.
"You didn't let me be your sidekick? I'll ruin your entire life!"

With his technological prowess, he could have been an amazing hero. Instead he got petty.

[kaijyuu]

For him it was more his philosophy that I sympathized with. He had a lot of poignant lines and was right about just about everything. His problem was he was a murderous psychopath.

Note how Mr Incredible didn't apologize until after he had been beaten up. Was that character development, or because Syndrome literally wasn't worth worrying about until he had power? Syndrome says the latter ("See? Now you respect me, because I'm a threat. That's the way it works.") and frankly I agree with him. I don't think his rampage was through petty vengeance but a simple desire to equalize, so people wouldn't have to have power to be given respect. That he himself gave no respect to anyone just proves why his methods were wrong; it's hypocritical and perpetrating the very thing he's supposedly fighting against.

So yeah, awesome villain



Very grey morality movie. Here I am demonizing the villain for being murderous when the heroes themselves killed hapless mooks (which the movie went to lengths to humanize!) without a second thought.

[Neonivek]

Well my favorite villain in Disney is Malefacent anyhow with just how awsome her design is and the fact that she isn't stupid while being deliciously evil. If Malefacent had one flaw it is that her defeat is almost an anti-climax. (I once heard a rumor of a movie about Malefacent and I was like WHAAAAA).

A great part about the Misfits as well is that they were the ones who actually got the more indepth and emotional backstories AND character development (not to mention they got the best songs). So they were also the more interesting group of the series.

Mind you it is why I at the same time dread a revival of Jem in any form... They could never do the Misfits well today. They would have to make the Misfits less talented, more evil, and with less character so that the kids wouldn't get confused. It actually kinda annoys me since they are actually one of the better developed villains (If they are even villains) in Cartoon history... No joke.

[Sirus]

Did Syndrome ever seek an apology in the intervening years? Remember that his actions in the opening scene of the movie led to a crashed train, the criminal possibly escaping, and making Mr. Incredible late for his own wedding. Mr. Incredible was understandably upset at the time, and for all we know there was never any contact between them again until Syndrome attempted to kill him.

The mooks I'd argue against being hapless, they seemed like garden-variety henchmen to me. Remember, the only ones we see die on screen have been attempting to kill the Incredibles at the time, so their deaths could conceivably be excused as self-defense. The only real humanization we get from them is when they're laughing at the Omni-Droid wreaking havoc on the city near the end. These were not the nicest guys.

[Neonivek]

for all we know there was never any contact between them again until Syndrome attempted to kill him

There never was. It was one of those obsession things.

For example Dr. Doom never spoke to Reed Richards until he tried to kill him (Not even the first comic into the series... so it was years before)