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[Neonivek]

I found it odd...

But I was looking at Wikipedia and oddly enough I got to Phineas and Ferb and I found out that someone named Candice Flynn as one of the top 10 worst rolemodels and actually attributes her to the collaspe of women's roles.

and I was sort of like "Really? So no woman can be a self-determined and boycrazy?.. I think you sort of also missed the entire point of her character. There are whole episodes that deal with the fact that these are actually character flaws and that she doesn't have to try so hard to make Jeremy like her... and even then EVEN if that wasn't true the problem with women's roles isn't the fact that there are very girly steriotypical ones, it is that there isn't a variety... and frankly at this point there arn't a lot of female characters who do her role anymore"

I probably shouldn't it so badly but frankly... Candice is probably my favorite character on the show. She actually has character depth.

I mean it is a show either of bafoons who will never learn, or mary sues who don't need to learn (or who can solve any problem rather quickly). Candice is the only character who has to actually try and learns from her experience. It is why I got tired of the boys and really started to enjoy her because there was somewhere to go.

[kaijyuu]

Re: Female characters.

You know, maybe it's because I limit myself to shows with some sort of acknowledgement, but I really haven't seen much of a problem relating to this in recent western animation (as in, the last 20 years). The worst of it is female characters in action shows (mainly superhero ones) being unable to be hit by male characters, so it always becomes a cat fight.

I was rather impressed with the handling of female characters in Justice League, and well... pretty much every series I've seen in the past year. Most if not all had some decent depth to them, and didn't have "female" as their defining character trait. None of those positive discrimination mary sues you mentioned, either.

/shrug


I'm certain someone could point out some horribly sexist cartoons made recently, but as a whole the scene seems rather progressive to me. What problems still exist (aforementioned problem with action shows, very few good "girl's shows" existing) aren't really related to characterization anymore, but more audience attitudes. So long as we keep having stuff like Power Puff Girls and MLP:FiM, I'm pretty hopeful those attitudes will fade as well.

[Neonivek]

Well My Little Pony Friendship is magic REALLY isn't a beacon of change for how we view the sexes... Given that ANY male that watches that show is given a derogitory term (Bronie) that is also neutral.

Powerpuffgirls... Yeah. Heck it even had two episodes on gender. Where one I hated (They tried to join their version of the justice league with major glory but they find out no girls are allowed... Then I remembered that they actually have had multiple female heros on the show before.).

[Putnam]

Isn't that the episode where they turn into a giant pussy cat and rub up against some villain's extremely large robot that was too hard for all of the League's men to beat?

[Jervill]

Well My Little Pony Friendship is magic REALLY isn't a beacon of change for how we view the sexes... Given that ANY male that watches that show is given a derogitory term (Bronie) that is also neutral.

How does this have any bearing on the show itself?

[kaijyuu]

So... audience attitudes (or attitudes toward audiences, I suppose). Like I said

Isn't that the episode where they turn into a giant pussy cat and rub up against some villain's extremely large robot that was too hard for all of the League's men to beat?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

[Neonivek]

Isn't that the episode where they turn into a giant pussy cat and rub up against some villain's extremely large robot that was too hard for all of the League's men to beat?

Well that DID happen... but that guy's power was specifically that he couldn't be defeated by Manliness and in fact absorbed power from it.

In otherwords they had to create a villain that none of the male heros could ever defeat because they are men.

[Putnam]

That doesn't excuse the cat >_>

[MrWiggles]

From my viewing of MLP:FIM has very negative views on Males in general. All the males shown as far as Season 1 is concern are bullies, or idiots or monsters. Spike himself isn't especially a strong male character, since he girl crazy and treated more like a pet at times or sectary.

[Putnam]

...Nnnnope.

[Jervill]

From my viewing of MLP:FIM has very negative views on Males in general. All the males shown as far as Season 1 is concern are bullies, or idiots or monsters. Spike himself isn't especially a strong male character, since he girl crazy and treated more like a pet at times or sectary.

Early season episodes mostly.  Big Macintosh, Braeburn, and Shining Armor are three male examples I can think of who are not bullies, idiots, or monsters.

[kaijyuu]

The small number of male characters is due to meddling, actually. There's quite a few more in season 2, all over the scale of "likeable" to "dislikable." Fancy Pants is awesome.

Honestly the only gender related hiccup I noticed was Shining Armor; he's Twilight's big brother, and has some horrible "your big brother is your protector" undertones. I felt his general attitude toward his younger sister absolutely grating. That can be justified by assuming the creators were just having fun with the "Knight in Shining Armor" trope, as his name suggests, though. Hopefully he never shows up again.

[MrWiggles]

From my viewing of MLP:FIM has very negative views on Males in general. All the males shown as far as Season 1 is concern are bullies, or idiots or monsters. Spike himself isn't especially a strong male character, since he girl crazy and treated more like a pet at times or sectary.

Early season episodes mostly.  Big Macintosh, Braeburn, and Shining Armor are three male examples I can think of who are not bullies, idiots, or monsters.

Big Macintosh is an empty character. Not familiar with Braeburn or Shining Armor though.

[kaijyuu]

Taking bets whether the new Mystery Incorporated episodes will be delayed or not.


I really am curious as to the development history of this show. The release schedule has been absolutely bonkers since it started. The premiere was over 2 goddamn years ago, and they're only 5 episodes into season 2 now.

Cartoon Network's fault? Internal struggles? Creative differences? What the fuck screws over a series this badly, without outright killing it?


Normally I'd just blame Cartoon Network because they're Cartoon Network, but looking at the show's continuity makes me think internal issues might be to blame too. The Night the Clown Cried parts 1 and 2 seem very disjointed, with the villain having entirely different motivations for each one despite being the same guy. Both are great episodes (some of the best in the series, even), but I really wonder if the writers were collaborating on it or just wrote two different episodes and haphazardly stuck them together later.

[Neonivek]

The small number of male characters is due to meddling, actually. There's quite a few more in season 2, all over the scale of "likeable" to "dislikable." Fancy Pants is awesome.

Honestly the only gender related hiccup I noticed was Shining Armor; he's Twilight's big brother, and has some horrible "your big brother is your protector" undertones. I felt his general attitude toward his younger sister absolutely grating. That can be justified by assuming the creators were just having fun with the "Knight in Shining Armor" trope, as his name suggests, though. Hopefully he never shows up again.

Honestly I REALLY REALLY have to watch this show. If only because of this accusation.

I mean it is one thing just for a character to have a condensending older brother who believes it is his job to protect his younger sister and POSSIBLY that she feels that way too. but for that scenario to play out like "That is how things should be" is another.

and this isn't just some dumb TVshow critic who finds any little character flaw to mean that the show wants children to copy that character. This is a Bay12games viewer meaning there is actually some clout (I can't believe I am not being sarcastic).

 

The Night the Clown Cried parts 1 and 2 seem very disjointed, with the villain having entirely different motivations for each one despite being the same guy

Sometimes this happens if the writers back out of a twist or of an event that happened.

It is very possible that they written a much better second part but either thought it was too risky or that it did too much too soon. It can also happen if they written the first part and then tried to shoehorn a certain ending and noticed that the motivations don't match so they change it.