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[dizzyelk]

I started with Pheobus because ASCII made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I stuck with that for a few versions, then decided to go 'hardcore' and play vanilla. Haven't turned back since.

I'll probably get around to finding a squared version of curses because the rectangular squares annoy the crap out of me, but not until Toady finishes with this round of bugfixes and we have another long break in updates.

The game comes with square curses. Called square_curses_16x16.png or something like that, its what I use.

[Rex_Nex]

I use Phoebus and Ironhand. I dont really see how they are confusing. ASCII hurts my eyes. I also have a lack of imagination, and tilesets fill in the blanks.

I am pretty sure DF's ASCII is a tileset, btw.

[hermes]

I'll probably get around to finding a squared version of curses because the rectangular squares annoy the crap out of me, but not until Toady finishes with this round of bugfixes and we have another long break in updates.

I've been using Taffer's tileset for a week now and it is pretty damn good.  Along with a custom colour palette this is the way to play for me.

[Starver]

Well, I have always used and continue to use ASCII(/ANSI/Codepage-437), and so share several contributors' opinions.

I keep seeing that the 'ASCII' is confusing or eye-hurting, but just can't agree.  Phrases like 'in the eye of the beholder' and 'horses for courses' spring to mind, of course.   OTOH, most times I see screenshots of alternate-tilesetted games I find interpretation sometimes rather difficult.  Animals often look like each other in pictures, at least to my inexperienced eyes, and while I can now perhaps see the difference between (oooh, I don't know..., let's say...) ducklings and puppies, where I might get confused where I never did before is telling the difference between llamas and camels and donkeys and horses... that kind of thing.

And, anyway, an ASCII chest/coffer/whatever looks like a chest/coffer/whatever.  Levers look like levers (switched one way or another).  Tell me that ╤ does not look like a table?  Albeit more like one from a diner than a Mead Hall.  A ∏-symbol looks like a Dark Fortress's dread portal or a wardrobe, according to context...  (And I don't know if tilesets have either separated these out or made some new image that looks equally like both, without basically being this symbol fancied up...)

A lot of the characters that aren't within the plain alphanumeric set (and some that are!) are really quite accurate representations of what they're supposed to be...  I sometimes wondered if Toady had looked at something like the "û" character and thought "I know what I'll now implement..!".  Alphanumerics are the worst, but letters generally stand for creatures of that letter and water-heights (not on by default) are something you pretty much want straight[1]

So goblins and geese look similar...  But are you in the middle of a siege/battle or have received a marauder alert?  No, then its probably a goose.  And you can always double-check, as you can even if it is in the middle of "the Battle of Goose Green".  Pause and check it out with the cursor...  You have that right, and would probably benefit from a bit of stop-motion micromanagement anyway, in that circumstances.


[1] Although I saw, in an included tileset screenshot, in this thread a "levels full" version of the numbers.  As long as that doesn't make menu quantities/distances unreadable, I like that idea.

[Rose]

I never use tilesets, and am constantly annoyed when savegames that I get from community fotresses have changed tiles on minerals. That said, I do work on stonesense, soo....

[Leatra]

People who get used to ASCII can't understand how others play with tilesets and vice versa. Getting used to tilesets takes time just like getting used to ASCII. It's easier than getting used to ASCII though. I started playing the game with Lazy Newb Pack so I got used to tilesets.

[Starver]

People who get used to ASCII can't understand how others play with tilesets and vice versa. Getting used to tilesets takes time just like getting used to ASCII. It's easier than getting used to ASCII though. I started playing the game with Lazy Newb Pack so I got used to tilesets.

You start off quite well, but then you make a judgement.  Why could it not be...

People who get used to tilesets can't understand how others play with ASCII and vice versa. Getting used to ASCII takes time just like getting used to tilesets. It's easier than getting used to tilesets though. I started playing the game vanilla so I got used to ASCII.

...instead?  Equally-biased, just as correct.

[Leatra]

Well, you need to memorize certain characters since there is a lot of animals. I think tilesets can make the learning process a lot more easy for people unfamiliar with ASCII. At least that's what happened for me. Most roguelikes I played before DF had tilesets. If you played a lot of ASCII games you'll find ASCII version better, of course. That's why we have both ASCII and tilesets. Different people has different tastes. Also, ASCII is the way to play DF. All to cool kids are doin' it.

There is no point in talking about this topic really. It's like people arguing about what color is the best. We had more threads like this and it usually ended up with people defending their preferance until people get bored or sometnig.

[Starver]

I still think that a=antman, b=batman, c=cat (or crundle), d=dog/duck, f=frog-man, g=goat/goblin/gremlin/etc, h=harpy, i=(fire)imp, k=kobold etc is pretty straightforward for anyone who knows what sort of animals/creatures they're expecting to see.  More so than "It's a quadruped, looks like it may be a ungulant of some kind..." in picture form.

I acknowledge this as a probably personal thing, but I can't see how it's any harder to go from alphabetic character to creature (usually with the same initial) than a small-scale picture.  L=Lion/Leopard (or Giant version for pretty much the same effect, or 'L'-man variety perchance?), but whatever the pixel-level variations possible, ultimately there's a learning process because of the still limited variation available in such a small space.  With all sets of "actually looks-like something" images, that is.

Either way, 'v' and cursoring over is your friend, however.

[Muddy Mudstone]

Tilesets are like training wheels. I used Mayday's before I eventually memorized the ASCII.

Having played Angband for about a decade in plain ASCII, and finding myself thereafter unable to migrate to any Angband tileset (such as the nice isometric one) because I had memorized the ASCII and didn't know what the graphics were supposed to represent, I feel certain that tilesets are a Good Thing, particularly if adopted early.

Granted, you then get stuck with a vocabulary of icons instead of a vocabulary of letters, but the icons are prettier.

[Isher]

Question: When using ascii can you tell at a glance of your screen what 20 different dwarves are doing, and what professions they are?

When I see a dwarf holding a quarry bush and the quarry bush occasionally blinks to show me this, and a dwarf holding a corpse, or etc., and also a dwarf holding a bow running by them, and another dwarf with an axe following him, and they're running out to a pasture full of (g)oats (dwarven cheese) surrounded by (g)eese (only take one year to reach maturity) in order to kill a (g)oblin, I can tell what weapon the goblin has and what weapons they're using and which things are goats and geese and goblins, and who is carrying what where, all at a glance. With ascii, can you see this? I am not asking to be a prick, I really can't remember if different shades show you axedwarves and range weapon dwarves, etc. (like i think the g is supposed to be green for goblins but different color for geese, but not sure if this applies to dwarves who are certain professions).

I believe that ascii doesn't show you who is holding what weapon, or who is a leader, or who is a fisherman, right? Because if it doesn't then I'll likely never switch. I'm all for hitting k and looking at stuff but if i have to take 45 seconds to do this  for each dwarf/goblin/goose/goat every time something interesting is going on it aggravates me.

[Rose]

Tilesets don't show you who is holding what weapon either. They tell you if somebody is an axedwarf, or a fisherdwarf, but do does the ascii.

Now stonesense, on the other hand, shows you what hat a dwarf is wearing, and if he's forgotten his armor at home.


Tilesets just don't give enough information for me, and aren't as easily readable as ascii. That's why if I want to play, I use ascii, and if I want to see pretty things, I use stonesense.

[Isher]

Tilesets don't show you who is holding what weapon either. They tell you if somebody is an axedwarf, or a fisherdwarf, but do does the ascii.

Gah this is what I meant - how does the ascii do this, by colors?

Now stonesense, on the other hand, shows you what hat a dwarf is wearing, and if he's forgotten his armor at home.

I didn't know this! I hope you release .11 soon, if you haven't already, I'm looking forward to it.

Tilesets just don't give enough information for me, and aren't as easily readable as ascii. That's why if I want to play, I use ascii, and if I want to see pretty things, I use stonesense.

This is what I mean, how do you get more information out of ascii? I figured at most it'd be equal. First I'd have to learn the difference between the icons - I know on my adventure mode runs I'd use phoebus so as to be able to differentiate bandits with ranged weapons, bandits with lashes, bandits with hammers, which bandits are dwarves and which are human, etc. - If you can tell all that with ascii I'll give it a shot.

[jaxy15]

Tilesets don't show you who is holding what weapon either. They tell you if somebody is an axedwarf, or a fisherdwarf, but do does the ascii.

Gah this is what I meant - how does the ascii do this, by colors?

Yep. For example, a blue ☺ represents a fisherdwarf. A blue ☻, on the other hand, represents an axedwarf.

[Rose]

This is what I mean, how do you get more information out of ascii? I figured at most it'd be equal. First I'd have to learn the difference between the icons - I know on my adventure mode runs I'd use phoebus so as to be able to differentiate bandits with ranged weapons, bandits with lashes, bandits with hammers, which bandits are dwarves and which are human, etc. - If you can tell all that with ascii I'll give it a shot.

It's not that there's more information. There's actually slightly less, but for me it's also an aesthetic choice. I don't like how the tilesets look, and they don't give enough extra info to make the ugly sprites worth it.

With ascii I can easily tell which are bow goblins, and which are axe goblins, etc, and I can read the letters easier than trying to figure out what that sprite is supposed to be a drawing of, but both of those I can figure out easily enough. I just think the text looks better.