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Author Topic: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. New Firmware Edition  (Read 64319 times)

Journier

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #450 on: December 25, 2020, 04:49:02 am »

scrapper perk was worth it for me at the start to begin my epic crafting fantasy....

then i found out all my crafted stuff really wasnt worth much.

Until i could craft epic and legendary stuff and it was worth only 800-1200 bucks... and at that point in the game money wasnt really a thing anymore, and i was already high level to handle any enemies i saw as well...

But geez go to the gunshop and they are selling my weapons for 60,000$ but I only get 1,000...

Who comes up with these price points?
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nenjin

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #451 on: December 25, 2020, 07:47:04 am »

Probably 4 different people over 8 or w/e years, editting the same spreadsheet in a hurry.

So my thoughts overall after about 40 hours....

It's hard not to compare CP2077 to a game like Fallout or GTA or Assassin's Creed because the patterns are so well worn in these open world games, and they all tend to suffer from the same problem: how do you convincingly fill that much space after the 20th hour, the 30th hour, etc and so on. This game seems to try to blend several different kinds of content.

-At the lowest level you have about half the "criminal activity" events. This is 4 to 7 dudes that are abusing some civilian or standing around being bad. You go in, kick their butts, it's nothing but combat. There's no context to it, no story, none of it even strikes me as purposefully placed. It might be purely randomly generated. This is the equivalent of Assassin's Creed's "You see a patrol of 4 enemy soldiers walking along and decide to fight them because you're bored" setup.

-Above that are the other half of the criminal activity events. These aren't just massed generated, they're hand built and placed. Some guys, in an arrangement somewhere, and 1 to 2 pieces of written text that you may or may not have to find to complete the mission. These are of the form "X talking to Y", always, that gives an incredibly superficial amount of context for why there's a body here, or why they're fucking with the antenna, or why they're by the docks, etc....

-Above that are the actual fixer missions. Most of these also seem hand-designed although in a quick and dirty fashion. Whether you're stealing something or rescuing someone or wiping some people out, there's an actual level and area designed to serve the purpose of that mission. Whether it's an area designed around attempting stealth or a slightly lengthier than normal warehouse with more guys or something. There will either be more "two texts of two people having a casual conversation" or an actual NPC and some dialog. The enemy chatter will sometimes be purpose written for the mission. There is the barest of scripting, usually of the "dudes spawn once you grab the objective" variety.

-Above that are side gigs. They're like the previous except they tend toward being more handcrafted, less "all your context for shooting people in two text notes." There might be some actual real story and characters in these missions. Easy to get them mixed up or mixed in with the more basic fixer missions. These upper tier fixer missions might be your Cyberpsycho hunts, for example. There might be some slightly more elaborate scripting to set the scene for the mission, but not by much.

-The main story missions. I've done the least amount of these now, but it seems like they're where the game saves all its tricks. It's where all the real dialog is. All the fancy animations. All the spectacle. In large part it's one of the rare places your character even talks. The places where it saves its most extreme and interesting set pieces and stuff. The most scripting and scripted events.

Add in all the running around constantly checking shops as you level up, monkeying around roof tops looking for access points, it adds up to a lot of time spent. But it's not hard to get a sense that they've padded things out a bit. Designed 80 pieces of food not because they wanted a bunch of actual variety, they just wanted the appearance of variety. Sorta how you have 3.2 millions different kinds of clothes, but there's no real functional difference between any of them. Which is why a Suede Triple Flex Cardigan can have the same armor value as a Reinforced Trauma Plate. It's the appearance of variety rather than actual variety.

So what I'm starting to feel about the game is this: the art team knew what they were about and cranked out a metric fuck ton of bleeding-edge quality content. The design team however....it feels a lot more amateur and uninspired. CP2077 is like a bigger and more ambitious Witcher, and therefore is sloppier. The weird oversights. The sheer grindiness and, frankly, pointlessness of some systems.

I don't know if it's disingenuous to say CP2077 is "style over substance" since so much of its substance IS style. But armor is clothing is armor really does make the point about what CP2077's priorities are. There are even texts in the game that parody the idea of style being all important.

If I had to liken it most to one of the other big open world games out there, I'd probably choose Assassin's Creed rather than say Fallout/Skyrim. I've never finished the main quest in any Bethesda game. Never even had the slightest compunction to. Because deep down I kinda always felt it'd just be another janky, awkward, taking-itself-too-seriously series of moments. Meanwhile, in Ubisoft games, the little content pellets they leave scattered all over the game, easy to find, easy to check off your list, gets me to finish the main storyline quests because it's like "Well I did all this other shit I might as well finish the actual game too." Bethesda games never get that reaction out of me, probably because I'm less invested in the stories and the delivery and execution of them has often been awkward at best.

With CP2077, it feels more like a Ubisoft game to me, where there's a lot of little shit on a list to be checked off but the main story and the execution of it are enough to make me feel it deserves its due. Just sort of a question of if all the not-main-story content of CP2077 burns out even my ability to play hours of the same repetitive content. A friend came over to see some of it live and after a little while he said "So you basically just run up to some guys standing there and just hack/shoot the shit out of them?" It was hard to disagree with that assessment. When not doing the main story missions, after you've played enough, it all start to blur together into a "find mans, shoot mans, read notes, spend skill points, sell guns, adjust fashion, go to next content pellet" routine.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 08:05:04 am by nenjin »
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BigD145

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #452 on: December 25, 2020, 09:33:46 am »

So I bought the Scrapper perk like a dumbass because I assumed, rather rationally I think, that it either wouldn't scrap high dollar junk items, or if it did, I would get the money for them.

Neither happen. So now I'm auto scrapping probably the most valueable early game loot there is and there's no way to stop it, other than paying $100,000 to reset all my perks.

Guess that's one way to make money more valuable to me :P Just kinda another example of the game feeling rushed in many small places, like some ideas were not thought through before becoming reality.

I looked at the autoscrapper perk after looking at the prices of some of the junk items and instantly said "NOPE". Money isn't a huge issue but also junk weighs nothing and can be sold with a single button press. I break down guns a lot so common crafting parts are easy to get. I also don't craft or upgrade so ..... It hasn't been necessary. If you're on a computer I say cheat engine 100000 dollars in and reset.
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Rince Wind

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #453 on: December 25, 2020, 01:55:33 pm »

@nenjin:
The story missions will open some more elaborate side gigs (mostly, some come from people calling you because you were recommended, but I think that also only happens after certain story missions). These are more involved than most fixer missions and often contain a chain of missions and you might get something more than a couple of eddies. Like vehicles and/or iconic weapons.
These mostly come from NPCs you meet during story missions.
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marples

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #454 on: December 25, 2020, 05:01:13 pm »

After getting a fair number of hours into the game, it's clear that the underlying skeletal structure is pretty much the same as Witcher 3.

Loot is an obvious one, with all enemies dropping a weapon that is usually worse than the specialised ones you carry, or not upgradeable enough to be carried forward. There's a bunch of clothing i'd like to wear, but as with W3 armour, it's never worth it to deviate from the superior choices available. At the moment my character is dressing like a techo-rodeo enthusiast because there are no other legendary blueprints for other clothing styles.

Quickhacking has much of the same balance issues as signs in W3, in that specialising in them trivialises content and overshadows traditional weapons. With the certain perks and the right legendary deck you can eliminate hosts of mooks with one application, or lock down a boss battle.

Mission structure also carries similar beats to W3, with cyberpsychos = monster hunts, assaults or ncpd tips = random/discovered encounters, and side gigs being typical side quests. What i feel is missing is the directed dialogue scenes, and this goes for main quests too.

Overall, I am having a good time with the game. NC is a beautiful environment that I'd like to have a more measured exploration of without all of the map marker pressure.



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nenjin

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #455 on: December 25, 2020, 08:05:56 pm »

Quote
What i feel is missing is the directed dialogue scenes, and this goes for main quests too.

Probably because CP2077 is designed as an immersive 1st person experience. There's no "shot/reverse shot" dialog sections that make up pretty much all of the Witcher 3. Your character isn't as much of a personalty as they are a meat sled for you to experience the game. (My friend even commented "Wow, this guy is like, not charismatic like Geralt was at all (referencing the main character and how they sound and act and react to stuff.)

On the one hand it's kinda refreshing, I sometimes found that Witcher dialogs dragged on a bit too long. On the other though, it leaves a lot of character interactions during story missions feeling kind of hollow and more about scripted drama than an evolving story and developing characters.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

JimboM12

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #456 on: December 25, 2020, 09:43:05 pm »

while they're not charismatic or as interesting as geralt, V does have an innate snarkiness to them naturally that comes out in most dialog choices regardless of whats being said and you can encourage it even more. there is some personality that surfaces when you choose their lifepath options in dialogs and i feel less like an observer when following geralts adventures where you have some input, compared to personally guiding V through their path like a conscience.
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dragdeler

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #457 on: December 25, 2020, 10:14:55 pm »

I know it's such a hottake but I identified with Johnny super quick, even in a completly naive run, the first half seems kinda of artificial like what's v yacking about, fucking bomb 'em. I will do the old silverhand honor with this run, see what a less shitty ending looks like.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #458 on: December 25, 2020, 10:20:56 pm »

As far as characterization goes, I like how V's dialog and mannerisms become progressively more Johnny's mannerisms as the story progresses, like where it starts out and you don't smoke, up to mid-game or so where you don't even get an option not to, he just pulls them out and starts smoking.  Plus becoming progressively more violently anti-corporate and all, more prone to big explosive actions.
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Sensei

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #459 on: December 25, 2020, 10:44:29 pm »

As far as characterization goes, I like how V's dialog and mannerisms become progressively more Johnny's mannerisms as the story progresses, like where it starts out and you don't smoke, up to mid-game or so where you don't even get an option not to, he just pulls them out and starts smoking.  Plus becoming progressively more violently anti-corporate and all, more prone to big explosive actions.

Hmmm, where's midgame you're referring to?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Because at that point I definitely noticed that V picked up the cigarette, but I still had the option. I had disagreed with Johnny a number of times and it would be wild if it's dependent on that. Otherwise maybe you're just at a later point than I am.
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nenjin

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #460 on: December 26, 2020, 04:16:03 am »

Well glad I just completed the whole "thing" before reading this thread. Them's kinda some spoilers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh well. Time to go back to splattering mooks again I suppose.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2020, 06:47:59 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

motorbitch

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #461 on: December 26, 2020, 05:22:32 am »

As far as characterization goes, I like how V's dialog and mannerisms become progressively more Johnny's mannerisms as the story progresses,
goes both ways. early jonny sais he hates tiquila, during tapeworm you can make him order tiquila
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Sartain

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #462 on: December 26, 2020, 02:48:55 pm »

As far as characterization goes, I like how V's dialog and mannerisms become progressively more Johnny's mannerisms as the story progresses,
goes both ways. early jonny sais he hates tiquila, during tapeworm you can make him order tiquila

Those are nice touches and probably explains why the protagonist had to be kinda bland, otherwise it'd show too quickly.

I think my main issue with the game is the fact that my Fixers keep calling me and texting me to do jobs for them so the amount of gigs in my journal and on the map just keeps rising and half the people, including the main missions, are always on a timer (not really but they say so) for one reason or the other.

Would it have been that hard to let me call my Fixers if I need a need a gig instead of them spamming them on me? Like, travel across town for a job, now you have 6 more gigs waiting because everyone calls you up the moment the catch your GPS on their police scanner or what the fuck
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BigD145

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #463 on: December 26, 2020, 03:32:18 pm »

None of them are on a timer and they're just like gas stations on the road map. Instead of being on the other side of the map and calling for jobs you can plot a course down one road and hit half a dozen jobs. You do tend to forget wth they are storywise. Shoot the guys and gals and get to the last room. Rinse and repeat.
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Sartain

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 by CDProjekt. Bug-free code Edition.
« Reply #464 on: December 26, 2020, 09:59:43 pm »

None of them are on a timer and they're just like gas stations on the road map. Instead of being on the other side of the map and calling for jobs you can plot a course down one road and hit half a dozen jobs. You do tend to forget wth they are storywise. Shoot the guys and gals and get to the last room. Rinse and repeat.

Also much like gas stations, it feels extremely weird to visit, or even just talk about, all of them on my trip across town.
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