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[orius]

Requiring clothing isn't a serious problem, it makes the clothing industry useful, and all those bins of cloth the elves like so much become more useful.  Plus I usually find that I have so much extra labor with immigration anyway that I don't worry about spending the labor on clothesmaking (usually 2 clothiers, 1 to make what everyone will wear, and 1 to decorate it, a leather worker to make shoes and hoods, and a dyer to pretty it up).

Mining changes aren't that bad.  There's the upside of not generating all that damn junk stone that clogs up everything in a fort, and ores have quadruple the yield now to compensate.  I don't know how it affects gems, but since most of the gems I find are trash I don't really care.

Siegers being able to breach walls would be annoying, but it would depend on what kind of countermeasures we'd have against it.  Would goblins need to use sappers and miners to breach walls?  That wouldn't be a problem if they weren't armed and armored well, or if they were armored but not very numerous.  You'd just have to target the sappers to kill first.

[Broseph Stalin]

enemies tunneling through wall, my only fear.

[krisslanza]

On topic, the only thing that might make me worry is if burrowing enemies could drill through walls, rendering all defense null.

YES

Isn't that planned for the Army Arc updates? Siegers bringing siege towers/ladders to get over walls, and/or Sappers to go under them? Prevents you from being able to make "invincible" fortresses by just walling it off with a drawbridge.

[WriterX]

It would be a new challenge, and make sieges much more dynamic, assuming you had a military to have FUN.

I do think though, that a siege where goblins/humans would have sappers or siege engineers would have to be rare events. Like mentioned before, organising the necessary equipment, army size and training the sappers/building the siege engines would be no simple task. As such, a massive siege which would be a real threat to your walls would have to be possible only once ever few years, from any given race.

[krisslanza]

It would be a new challenge, and make sieges much more dynamic, assuming you had a military to have FUN.

I do think though, that a siege where goblins/humans would have sappers or siege engineers would have to be rare events. Like mentioned before, organising the necessary equipment, army size and training the sappers/building the siege engines would be no simple task. As such, a massive siege which would be a real threat to your walls would have to be possible only once ever few years, from any given race.

I imagine the siegers don't ALWAYS bring these things. Or maybe they would - after all, sieges proper don't happen unless you have a really valuable fortress after all. They want your treasure!

[WriterX]

It would be a new challenge, and make sieges much more dynamic, assuming you had a military to have FUN.

I do think though, that a siege where goblins/humans would have sappers or siege engineers would have to be rare events. Like mentioned before, organising the necessary equipment, army size and training the sappers/building the siege engines would be no simple task. As such, a massive siege which would be a real threat to your walls would have to be possible only once ever few years, from any given race.

I imagine the siegers don't ALWAYS bring these things. Or maybe they would - after all, sieges proper don't happen unless you have a really valuable fortress after all. They want your treasure!

Hum, that made me think. The be-sieging army demanding certain artifacts/treasure in order *not* to start the siege? Diplomacy before the onslaught?

[Friendstrange]

I think digging, sapping, siege ladders, catapults, ballistas, cannons, and all that would be an awesome contribution, so long as there are ways to deal with them. Itd be cool for the enemy tunnelers and their tunnel to be in sneak mode.

But more importantly id like that the bandits we always see in adventure mode try to rob/pillage/raid the fort as unafiliated units so you dont actually NEED to piss off a civilization to get raided by something other than goblins and megabeasts. Something like mongols and such or mercenary warbands. And the whole diplomacy thing being overhauled so as a fortress you can form aliances with animal men or strike deals with siegers/raiders via the nobles or a diplomat unit. But that is far un the future.


BUT BACK ON TOPIC: I cant think of much that would prevent me from updating except a "work in progress" feature that isnt ready enough. I havent updated to the hauling update yet as that seems to still being worked on and Im not done with my current fort, which is so very not equipped for minecarts and changed hauling mechanics.

Though I still find the rate at wich clothing gets worned out to be too fast for the speed at which the game progresses. Maybe slowing the game calendar a bit would be better, but I ramble.

[Poindexterity]

what would stop ME from updating? two words;

Dwarf poop.

[Broseph Stalin]

what would stop ME from updating? two words;

Dwarf poop.

I don't know, I've thought about the ramifications and needing to create sewers and the possibility to accidentally contaminate your watersources may add to the game then again I don't think anyone's ever complained that building a fortress is too simple.

[Poindexterity]

what would stop ME from updating? two words;

Dwarf poop.

I don't know, I've thought about the ramifications and needing to create sewers and the possibility to accidentally contaminate your watersources may add to the game then again I don't think anyone's ever complained that building a fortress is too simple.

you'd spend your whole 1st year designing a freaking sewer instead of farms, defenses and trade goods.

[Friendstrange]

There would also be the matter of where all that contaminated water and excrement would go. One could always make a "water processing plant" via screwpumps or use fortifications on the edge of the map but those are just work-arounds, not actual gameplay mechanics. And in this case you could always dump it in the river or brook but that is both a bad idea and would limit your embark options.

And then theres the matter of miasma from excrements and...yeah no fully working dwarven digestive system please, vomit is enough already.

[Dyret]

There has to be more to dwarves shitting than free buckets and a river to dump it in? I used to think that was the (implied) reason for them dragging all those buckets back to their rooms to begin with.

[Tirion]

what would stop ME from updating? two words;

Dwarf poop.

I don't know, I've thought about the ramifications and needing to create sewers and the possibility to accidentally contaminate your watersources may add to the game then again I don't think anyone's ever complained that building a fortress is too simple.

you'd spend your whole 1st year designing a freaking sewer instead of farms, defenses and trade goods.

Naah. 2 words: chamber pots.

[Eric Blank]

I have faith that Toady isn't going to be a jackass and make the game virtually unplayable through insurmountable levels of complexity or terribly-planned features. As GIH said in the very first reply, any possible added complexity will more than likely be coupled with some form of management or options to deal with it, including letting it be completely optional in the first place like booze; your fortress doesn't NEED booze, you could survive on water and save barrels and plants for ☼plump helmet roasts☼ and suffer only a loss in productivity, that honestly isn't going to ruin your fun or invoke ‼FUN‼ (and prevents ‼FUN‼ related to open flames+booze). Toady has made a point of fixing that which creates problems, even if that means providing the player an express route to leap right over it in the first place.

What would prevent me from updating is a game-breaking bug or feature/interface so poorly planned that I simply can't play at all or enjoy it if I could. That hasn't happened in the 3+ years I've been playing, though. I've played nearly every version between 0.28.181.40c and 34.09 besides 31.01+2, and excluding 34.10 thus far because I'm so damn lazy I don't want to update right now. I honestly doubt Toady will do anything that horrible anytime this decade.

[Babylon]

what would stop ME from updating? two words;

Dwarf poop.

I don't know, I've thought about the ramifications and needing to create sewers and the possibility to accidentally contaminate your watersources may add to the game then again I don't think anyone's ever complained that building a fortress is too simple.

you'd spend your whole 1st year designing a freaking sewer instead of farms, defenses and trade goods.

You don't need a sewer right off though, just outhouses and chamber pots, a sewer can wait till the fortress gets a bit bigger.