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[Tiruin]

Great. Internet dies right before I post, this reply should be Reply #203...So meh, all replies after #205 are down after the PPE @ Shakerag


Shakerag

Tiruin:  You're replacing in for someone I felt was scum D1.  What's your quick take on the reasons everyone had for voting thier target D1?

Everyone believed they were right in laying down their votes for those people, and let them stick until their feelings on those people were clarified by their responses.

I can't tell if you're being a smart-ass or not, so to clarify and re-word: Who do you feel had poor/weak resoning behind thier vote at the end of D1?

((I don't ever try to be a smart-ass  ))

So (feels on votes in general):
Flying Dice - Vote because of OMGUS (Nope) but the reasons seem sound.
Chaos Armor - Was basically an RVS vote, but it escalated (I guess) into a lynch vote.
BMC - Last minute hit on Deathsword. I'm guessing he tries to show where he stood before he died.
Deathsword - More on this one below.
IronyOwl - Unsure why you unvoted, inertiawagon?
Shakerag - Vote for escalating scumminess, and it does seem true as he was jumpy and looked panicking as if he was caught.
Fiskav//abc//Particularly his rep. - Down below
borno - Seems valid based on what he highlights (during vote), but then his reason was "scummy because FoS > Vote" without pushing BMC.


Starting on Death's case.

His first vote on a person may well be on newbie bounds, but judging by what he said later on, not only does he miss Irony's words on why his reasoning was wrong (and doesn't press harder to ensure it). He is quite sure BMC is scum without giving his own questions on the case to assure it, but basing off other's words.

Tiruin: I haven't asked abulatter_2 a question because I simply couldn't think of any that could be used for scumhunting.

What I consider scummy? Mostly avoiding questions or giving very vague answers, really.


Now that I have actually managed to think of a question and re-read some of the last posts... Abculatter, why is it that you keep giving clearly non-serious and rather confusing answers to the questions of others? Like the others, I would like if you clarified what you meant by (bolded part):

As for your question... Well, the first thing I'd try to remember is that I'm not a mafia player, but I'll just pretend I have amnesia...
What would be the most important thing to remember... Hmmm... I would say, stay low-key, and don't go hoppin' around voting on everyone. But I'm a nub, so what would I know?

You ignored my statement, and based on what you said, why aren't you pressing onto those people that aren't avoiding questions or giving detailed answers?

Query: Your 'pressure vote' was derived from what happened during the night, why? Also, on

Chaos Armor:

Deathsword:

Chaos Armor: Who do you think had the weakest case on BMC D1 and why?

I think Deathsword had the weakest case. Looking back on it he simply stated...

Furthermore, blackmagechill seems very defensive, even somwhat angry, when questioned by people other than me, so, for that, he gets my vote.

He includes the least amount of reasons and they are a little vague, so I see his as the worst.

"When questioned by people other than me". That statement just sticks out to me. I can't put a finger on it though.

I stated multiple times the detailed reasons for my vote, the first not long after that post, something you conveniently ignored. Are you trying to draw attention away from yourself by taking advantage of the fact that I'm the top suspect for some?

Let me point out where I made my case against BMC:

IronyOwl: Very well, I'll tell what I did read from that and why I kept it a secret.

I'll start with the why: I wasn't completely sure and I certainly wasn't confident enough about what I though to share with others, especially since it carried the risk of making me look stupid and even making my situation worse. So yes, it was partially out of fear and I admit that.


Now, what I did get from that: He seemed to misunderstand (intentionally or not) most of my statements. If it was because they were confusing for any reason, I apologize. However, he decided to FoS and later vote me because I "felt wierd". Now, this is (or was) RVS, thus voting to pressure is normal. However, when questioned himself he was clearly defensive, even angry, and kept re-stating the same things, mostly how I "felt wierd". This has led me to belive there is something off here and thus I hereby clearly and fully accuse him of being scum due to behaviour I belive to be that of scum.

My question to fiskav still stands, I'd like to know why.

and

Restating my case on BMC:

Keeps misunderstanding (I belive it's intentonally, but could be wrong on this one) statements by others.
He voted for me right after I FoS'ed him.
When questioned, he was defensive and seemed angry. Often repeating the same arguments.
Appears to be desperate with the concept of being lynched, and tried to make the lynch seem like a bad idea.

These are the main reasons I am quite sure he is scum, and thus my vote is on him.

You may not agree with them, but they are certainly not vague. So, why is it that you are twisting the facts, scum?

Could you explain why the bolded portions go as reasons for scum? From where I see it, vague in the sense that you aren't explaining why being such means being scum.

What did you hope to gain by asking a question about what happened in the night?

Abculatter: What do you think happened during the night? Do you think there is a doctor or that the scum team did not kill on purpose?

And how does this pressure abculatter?

And here you get it wrong. BMC cast his suspicions on Deathy here, the one you quoted by the way.

So I'm a "Deathy" now? I'm flattered.

Name shortcut, please.

On abc in short, he voted on BMC for reasons unknown as to why he wanted to rest his vote on him, then only acknowledges borno in a joke, forgetting or evading to answer borno's question about offensive attitudes (on his replacee) though by the lack of him now, and that he didn't post after being asked, I don't find anything else to leave my vote on him though (due to lack of posts), but his statements are contradictory in his accusing and he cannot defend himself currently. Despite that, his last vote on BMC looked like an affirmation of a lynch.

abc's replacement: Could you give your opinion on why you think abc acted like such?

Flying Dice:

In any case, if being honest and open about my thoughts and intentions is going to draw fire, I don't particularly care. I'd rather provide as much reasoning as I can, both as a learning tool and to help town, even if I take flak from scum looking for a mislynch. I screwed up and didn't look around as much as I should have during D1, and if I'm the only one willing to admit that, so be it.

Hold on, taking fire? All you have is one vote on you and it seems to me that you're going full assault because of it. What I saw was just a question on how someone could start a bandwagon.

On the note of lack of pressure, I'm rather concerned that the old "ICs can't be scum" mindset is coming up again.

What gave you this idea?


Chaos Armor



IC/MOD: Is there a limit to FoS's?
PPE Shakerag

Tiruin:  So ... back at the beginning of D2 here you voted abculatter_2 for FoSing without making his own points and using someone else's ... but when you call Deathsword out for basically the same thing ... you did nothing?  No vote?  Not even a FoS?  You come flat out and say he's "lacking in trying to scumhunt".  And then the question he finally asks is one the IC said not to ask.  Where's the follow-up here?  I know he's your scumbuddy and all, but please at least try to make it look like you're putting some distance between yourselves.

I did say PFP (forgot to bold it now that I see it) when I posted my last other post before I messed up the time. Other than abc, I did have my sights on Flying Dice and decided to ask him before getting back to work. Reasons are above.

Also, why do you say I have a hand with Deathsword here?



Alsoalso:

Sorry, I can't go on the forums much any more, so
Request Replacement.

I'd comment snarkily but I'm in no position to. Hope you can join a game for good sometime, it's a lot more satisfying (and instructive) than just getting the first day.


Extend, though I doubt it. I guess I'll unvote Deathsword just on principle, but I get the feeling BMC's lynch is an inertiawagon.

*obvious eyebrow raise*  You think?  I like how only the ICs and BMC himself are not voting for him.

Judging by what you said here, looks like you agree on the inertiawagon thing. How?

[IronyOwl]

Deathsword:

This could also be asked of Theodolus, since his accusation of me is quite similar, simply inversing the roles of Chaos Armor and myself. Quote:

No one seems to be questioning his proof on it, however.

I wanted to give him the chance to use that for pressure. If I'd been paying closer attention I probably would have advised him against it or questioned him on it later.

That said, I find it interesting that you bring this up at all, especially since you compare yourself to him and don't ask him yourself. How long have you known about this similarity, and why haven't you pointed it out earlier?


More importantly, you say your accusations are quite similar... but, presumably you think Theo's case on you is wrong and yours on CA is right, right? How does that work?

But back to the question: He didn't give any real arguments when Flying Dice accused him (quote incoming):

Spoiler: Quote (click to show/hide)

FlyingDice:

That constitutes your entire "investigation" into BMC. You pose ONE moderately valid question to him, then use that as an excuse to sit back and sideline ever since, occasionally firing off one-line token questions and responses, hiding yourself behind the claim that you're waiting for his real response, and waving off the one he did give by asking for another response. If you're so damn suspicious of him, why the hell aren't you pushing him!? Ironic, really, considering that one of your one-line responses was stating that the best way to catch scum is to scumhunt.

So. Chaos Armor. I guess I gave you a proper answer after all, borno. Incidentally, why are you so curious about my suspicions, borno? Looking to rifle through peoples' pockets for loose paths of investigation so you can appear to be doing something productive instead of sidelining like Chaos Armor?

Anyhow. BMC is still scummy as all hell to me, and that blackmail he's been throwing around hasn't helped his case. BMC: I'm sure you've at least skimmed the tips (or old games), so why the hell are you trying a last-ditch blackmail attempt? It won't help town stop a mislynch, and it certainly won't help scum like you. You have given me zero reason, in your behavior or response, to think that you're town.

The questions I was going to ask BMC were already asked by another person before me. I saw no reason to ask them again. It would simply be the same answer. I will admit that I could have done a little less sidelining but time and internet restricted me.

Still waiting on a response to the above, Chaos Armor. BMC flipped town, and your shoddily concealed bandwagon is looking a hell of a lot more suspicious to me now. What do you have to say for yourself?

What do I have to say for myself? What I have to say is that I fail to see how being the first person to vote makes it my bandwagon. Unless you are insinuating that Jim gave me a power called the "Jim Bot Fallacy", then I fail to see how it is my bandwagon. You yourself voted for BMC later. So maybe it is you who I should be accusing you of bandwagoning? You explained it away using the same reasons as everyone else.

He really didn't answer the question, instead he simply threw some sarcasm at Flying Dice.

I don't understand what question he didn't answer. Didn't answer satisfactorily, perhaps, but FD asked him why he wasn't hunting, and he explained it. What do you feel he didn't address, and why is that so damning it means he's scum, no further evidence necessary?

Another thing that is quite supicious is this:

1. He OMUGUS'd. (Tried to use Bull Manure reasons to back up his vote.)

2. More defending than scumhunting.

3. He tried to play the "If you lynch me you are going to regret it" card.

4. Gut feeling. Every time he answered a question something was always off to me.

His "evidence" is literally exactly all my arguments as to why BMC was scum. He just repeated what I kept saying for all of D1.

And? What's wrong with that? Do you feel your arguments against BMC day 1 were so unique or uniquely phrased that you can confidently say he's copying you, not just finding similar issues? Or is there another reason you think he's obviously copying you, or might be copying you but doesn't warrant questioning over it?



Tiruin:

IronyOwl - Unsure why you unvoted, inertiawagon?

Matter of principle. Deathsword had answered all my questions as satisfactorily as I could go that day, so voting him into day's end wouldn't really have sent the right message.

By inertiawagon, I mean he was lynched because it seemed like he was going to be lynched, not because he was scum or even necessarily scummy. I think several people, not all of them scum, just sort of went "Yeah, sure, BMC's pretty scummy, let's do that" and so did that.

IC/MOD: Is there a limit to FoS's?

FoS's are completely informal, so there are no rules on them. Obviously the more you use them the less gravity each one seems to carry, but that's purely a matter of heuristic perception.

[Flying Dice]

Flying Dice:

Shakerag and IronyOwl:

You've had your votes on Deathsword practically since the start of D2 and haven't been talking to him very much in the past few days. How certain of your suspicions are you; and are your suspicions of him primarily based on BMC flipping town after he and Deathsword went after each other? Incidentally, why have you two been (apart from a time around June 15th) pursuing the same person to such a degree?

I've been talking to him as much as I've been able, weekend excluded, but he hadn't been very active either.

I'm not certain of my suspicion at all; I think Deathsword is hands down the best lynch if we had to lynch someone right now, but how certain am I that he's scum and not a noob? That's a very tough distinction to make, especially when neither of us is as active as we need to be.

My suspicions are based a little on BMC flipping town, but moreso on Deathsword's lack of hunting and absolute certainty on terrible reasons, with BMC just being another example of that. BMC's insistence that Deathsword was scum isn't a factor at all- if he had any golden insights into who was scum and who wasn't, he probably could have explained them better and thus not gotten lynched over them.

I really can't speak to Shakerag's motivations, but presumably because we both find him scummy.


Also, why did you unvote Chaos Armor after Deathsword unvoted him, then revote him shortly afterwards?

For the last: I was wavering. At the time, I was rereading everything and wanted to avoid having a vote on the field* while I wasn't certain if CA felt more like scum or newtown to me.

*I've been having difficulties with my internet connection, and have been troubleshooting to try and determine what I need to fix/replace. I might be online all this week, and I might lose my connection until after the lynch. I didn't want to run into a situation where I had my vote on someone who I didn't think was scum; after reexamining everything, I decided that I was fairly certain in my conclusion and revoted.

Do you think that there is a certain type of "feel" that some new players have that makes it basically impossible to tell beforehand if they're scum or town because they react (panic) in the exact same way when pressured? I'm curious to see responses both from you as a player and as an IC.

Great. Internet dies right before I post, this reply should be Reply #203...So meh, all replies after #205 are down after the PPE @ Shakerag

Flying Dice:

In any case, if being honest and open about my thoughts and intentions is going to draw fire, I don't particularly care. I'd rather provide as much reasoning as I can, both as a learning tool and to help town, even if I take flak from scum looking for a mislynch. I screwed up and didn't look around as much as I should have during D1, and if I'm the only one willing to admit that, so be it.

Hold on, taking fire? All you have is one vote on you and it seems to me that you're going full assault because of it. What I saw was just a question on how someone could start a bandwagon.

On the note of lack of pressure, I'm rather concerned that the old "ICs can't be scum" mindset is coming up again.

What gave you this idea?

Seems like half of us are having internet problems this game, bleh.
__

I didn't say anything about a "full assault"; my implication was more akin to a few stray shots zipping by overhead. I offered a more extensive explanation of my reasoning and thought process because my responses were being largely ignored when I responded with the bare minimum or with nothing but the end of my train of thought. Any reason why you're cherrypicking the least-relevant portions of my posts and misinterpreting metaphorical statements instead of scumhunting?

As for the second: Uh, duh? No votes on either IC yet; nobody has seriously pressured either of them. The exact thing happened last BM and both turned out to be scum. I'm not saying the same sort of thing is happening in this game, but the point is that it could. Nobody should be ignored or free from questioning. I haven't even seen anyone express surprise or concern over this. Nobody can be safely assumed to be town.

[Tiruin]

Gah.

EBWOP:

Chaos Armor:

...He OMUGUS'd. (Tried to use Bull Manure reasons to back up his vote.)

Could you point out those reasons exactly?

You voted me for nonsensical reasons then took it off to avoid looking like you were attacking me. You jumped on a bandwagon D1 looking for an easy lynch.

And please expound on how FD did a bandwagon and your reasoning on it.

=snip=

So you compare your reasons from CA and decide those are the presiding choices on why he is scum?

Keeps misunderstanding (I belive it's intentonally, but could be wrong on this one) statements by others.
He voted for me right after I FoS'ed him.
When questioned, he was defensive and seemed angry. Often repeating the same arguments.
Appears to be desperate with the concept of being lynched, and tried to make the lynch seem like a bad idea.

1. He OMUGUS'd. (Tried to use Bull Manure reasons to back up his vote.)

2. More defending than scumhunting.

3. He tried to play the "If you lynch me you are going to regret it" card.

4. Gut feeling. Every time he answered a question something was always off to me.

So let me ask you, Irony's question was these

Specifics. Why do you consider all of this to be like you say and not something else?

For instance, CA voted BMC because he saw an opening due to you and BMC going at it, right? How do you know this?

Why are you evading the 'how do you know this' and why do you only use quotes to back up your reasoning (other than restatement and rehashing them for clarity).  P.S. Your 'evidence' on your 'pressure vote' on abc was a restatement of my reasons, if I have to add that. Regardless, why do you think his reasoning is scummy without asking him?

[Tiruin]

Seems like half of us are having internet problems this game, bleh.

Yep. >_>

Anyway, another reply to this in ~12 hours, because work is heavy...in the meantime, short question:

What exactly made you waver on your response? Was your gut feeling strong enough to reconsider, or did you not feel that your target was scummier than the usual suspect (i.e. the one who had the most votes?)

[Teneb]

Tiruin: Yes, it was quite stupid of me not to heed the IC advice and not pressure BMC more, but there's nothing anyone can do about that now.

The pressure vote on Abcullater was simply to try and get anything out of him, as he said pretty much nothing. The night question was a bad question, and didn't help at all. But I am a terribly unimaginative person and as such these things end up being said.

Regarding once more BMC, he cracked under pressure and, quoting Shakerag:

What happened to BMC is what has happened in a lot of beginner's games I've seen: he had the misfortune of being the first to screw up.  That's pretty much a guaranteed death sentence in a beginner's game, and often is in other games as well (especially since beginners don't know how to handle all of that early-game attention well).

Now, onwards to something intresting:

Tiruin: You've been repeatedly acting very friendly towards me, as Shakerag has pointed out (more on that below). What are you trying to gain by trying to buddy with the guy with the most votes? Draw suspicion towards me? Because you are doing a fabulous job at that.

First, you didn't answer the questions. Or rather, instead of doing that you voted on me. All the stuff you pointed out happened quite some time ago and you could have voted for me based on that back then. Instead, only when I question why you were trying to look like we were scumbuddies you decide to vote, thus placing me even closer to the lynch. As I see it, you are trying to go for an easy lynch. Are you trying to bandwagon by making sure that, since the only vote remaining is from a player that has yet to enter the game (abculatter's replacement), I will be lynched. You would love that wouldn't you, scum? Especially since it would draw attention away from your scumbuddy.


IronyOwl: At no point in D1 did Chaos Armor state any of his "evidence". In fact, he only divulged it quite recently. Regarding FD's question, CA didn't answer, unless you count snark and asking the same question back at FD an answer. Regarding Theodolus theory, yes, I only noticed that it was actually identical while re-reading the thread recently. He backed it up with as much evidence as I did when I presented my take on the events: none. However, I did provide something to back it up not long after, unlike him whose theory was mostly overlooked.


Every single time I press the post button, two new replies pop in. Not that I can complain, at least it's some activity.

[Tiruin]

First of all, that vote was before anything you ever said and was supposed to be the 203rd reply.

Secondly, you FoS...everyone, for some reason and perhaps acting on FD's advice on his notion.

Thirdly,

Tiruin: You've been repeatedly acting very friendly towards me, as Shakerag has pointed out (more on that below). What are you trying to gain by trying to buddy with the guy with the most votes? Draw suspicion towards me? Because you are doing a fabulous job at that. Furthermore, why haven't you voted anyone yet? You keep calling me out on not scumhunting, yet you are not scumhunting yourself.

BS.

Acting friendly? No.

What I've been doing is questioning you, but lack of damn time has it's consequences.

...Only when I question why you were trying to look like we were scumbuddies you decide to vote, thus placing me even closer to the lynch.

I think you didn't read what I said earlier. And, easy lynch? You do know that I vote people because from where I see it, they're the most scummy, right?

Are you trying to bandwagon by making sure that, since the only vote remaining is from a player that has yet to enter the game (abculatter's replacement), I will be lynched. You would love that wouldn't you, scum? Especially since it would draw attention away from your scumbuddy.

Did you even read my post? You're deflecting onto me for my tardiness of posting.

Like I said, time constraint currently. Full replies ~12 hours.

[Theodolus]

Deathsword
Well, I was waiting for a reply on my weak reasoning and never got one. You are correct that I didn't have any actual evidence for my reasoning, just a gut feeling. Of course, the fact that you took so long to compare my argument to your argument against CA makes me wonder if you weren't doing your best to keep the others from remembering how scummy you were on D1. Once it got to the point where you were/are facing a possible lynch situation you pulled out the comparison in the hope that it would make the others pull back a bit.

IronyOwl:

If you were scum right now, who do you think you'd be going after to save yourself?

I'd keep going at Chaos Armor to see if I could get another vote on him, either causing him to be lynched (myslynched, in this hypotetical situation) or having no lynch happen.

I do find it interesting that here you state to save yourself (as scum) you'd try to cast more doubts on CA and see if you could get a no lynch to happen. Is that not a valid tactic to take as a townie as well, since you apparently feel he's scum, or do you think you're better served by scum hunting even when nobody seems inclined to unvote you?

Tiruin
I'm curious why you feel that Deathsword is FoSing everyone. From the Lurker Tracker it shows he's only FoSed 3 people today and suddenly that constitutes 'everyone'. From what I can tell he was trying to use the FoS to provoke some answers and/or use it to pressure a player. In other words, using it as it's intended. Is it really so shocking to see your name in blue that you have to cast doubt on the legitimacy of his tactics? Oh wait I got it. Nice to see players taking IC advice once in a while...

Spoiler: Context (click to show/hide)

I know he's your scumbuddy and all, but please at least try to make it look like you're putting some distance between yourselves.

IronyOwl
So you if you had been paying attention to my post better instead of lurking around being a lazy IC you'd have cautioned against it and/or questioned me on it later? I'm curious what was so awful about it other than the lack of evidence backing it up. I saw it as a valid pressure tactic. Granted I didn't follow up on it right away, but it also didn't even make Deathsword blink right away. It wasn't until he mentioned it that it became a discussed issue and at that point became a point to question him on, working as a pressure application as intended. (Curious about this from your player standpoint and your IC standpoint incidentally)

[Shakerag]

Deathsword@207: First of all, I haven't had cause to give IronyOwl the third degree yet.  He's shaping up to try and qualify for the 2012 Summer Lurking Olympics, but so have a number of other players.  Besides, I have technically asked a serious scumhunting question to everyone by nature of my example earlier in the thread. 

Have we been acting identically?  You'll have to show me, because I don't recall any mimicry on our part.  Not that I largely care, mind you; it doesn't really surprise me much that the two most experienced players in a beginner's game are acting in a similar way.  Along those lines, I haven't seen anything about IO's reasons for voting you that need my questioning.  And, unless his reasons were pure bullshit, why would I?

As for my reasons:
WIFOM @ 57
borno (who I think is also scum) dropping your name @100 when there was no discernable reason to do so
excessive concern over image/giving ammo
keeping vote on BMC D1, and poking lurkers for a stretch
you and Tiruin (nee borno) scumbuddying it up D2


Tiruin: Why do I mention you in my post to Deathsword?  Because of this timeline:
-D2 Starts
-Ds votes CA, suspects abc but says abc hasn't done anything scummy
-Tiruin votes abc (which, if I was scum, would be my #1 mislynch pick for D2)
-Tiruin pokes Ds to question abc
-Ds can't think of questions for abc, FoSes abc, then copies your question to abc
-Tiruin totally softballs Ds on the abc topic
-Ds now votes abc (again, ripe mislynch target) with a question I said not to ask

Note that this entire time abculatter_2 never made a post. 

So Deathsword starts off D2 voting the wrong guy, Tiruin pops in scumchat and tells Deathsword to vote the easy lynch guy (abc), and Deathsword bumblefucks his way over to voting him. 

I don't understand what exactly you're asking about the "inertiawagon thing".  (As an aside, was this term thrown around before this game?  I don't really remember seeing it before, but I kind of like it anyway.) 

[Tiruin]

Theodolus
Hooray, I messed up the word 'everyone' when I was thinking all the ICs. Mistake for rushing a post before going to work. Apologies.

I don't think those FoS's are to provoke from where I'm seeing it, as you [Deathsword] suspect...more than 2 people and choose not to answer any questions coming from them [me, actually]. I'm wondering why you're [Theo] jumping in with Shakerag to say the same to me when he hasn't answered why he is saying so, though. Did you even read my reasons on why I voted him, or even wait on why Shakerag said so? I'm not scum, nor is Deathsword my buddy but the only way I can prove it is by my words.

Where did you see shock there?


But as you brought it up, to humor Deathysword:

Tiruin: You've been repeatedly acting very friendly towards me, as Shakerag has pointed out (more on that below). What are you trying to gain by trying to buddy with the guy with the most votes? Draw suspicion towards me? Because you are doing a fabulous job at that.

I'm not trying to gain anything, as I'm not even buddying you. If you see me buddying, then state how and not give a null signal. If I was drawing suspicion towards you, then I guess it is very evident in my post, along with that nice red text that had your name on it. However, you say this like I've been...oh, repeating it? Wow. You're 'more on that below' just cut off your line of thought, and if I have to restate: You have evaded my questions.

And to complete it.

Tiruin: Yes, it was quite stupid of me not to heed the IC advice and not pressure BMC more, but there's nothing anyone can do about that now.

The pressure vote on Abcullater was simply to try and get anything out of him, as he said pretty much nothing. The night question was a bad question, and didn't help at all. But I am a terribly unimaginative person and as such these things end up being said.

No, there is. Heeding their advice, now.

If you wanted to get anything out of him, why ask something that happened in the night of all things; you say it is a bad question and it didn't help at all and yet continued to ask it?

By terribly unimaginative, you mean really can't find anything to ask people to see if they're scum or not?

I didn't say anything about a "full assault"; my implication was more akin to a few stray shots zipping by overhead. I offered a more extensive explanation of my reasoning and thought process because my responses were being largely ignored when I responded with the bare minimum or with nothing but the end of my train of thought. Any reason why you're cherrypicking the least-relevant portions of my posts and misinterpreting metaphorical statements instead of scumhunting?[/i]

You didn't say anything about it, yes, but your post sounded like a full assault with that confession and that 'I don't care' notion. I don't see anything as 'least relevant', or it wouldn't be put in there, would it? Though, you sound sincere in your words there and seem determined to see CA lynched in that case.

Could you clarify by what metaphorical statements I am misinterpreting?

I picked that paragraph out of those statements because of the bolded part now shown.

In any case, if being honest and open about my thoughts and intentions is going to draw fire, I don't particularly care. I'd rather provide as much reasoning as I can, both as a learning tool and to help town, even if I take flak from scum looking for a mislynch. I screwed up and didn't look around as much as I should have during D1, and if I'm the only one willing to admit that, so be it.

You state that you didn't look around as much as you should have in D1, yet your first reason for voting him still sounds like it stands, but now you bring out the point in which it is true. CA did lack in scumhunting his target, though whether for reasons in RL/lack of internet affecting it, I cannot see.

Though, I think I see where CA slipped, in terms of reasoning.


Chaos Armor
Your question to Flying Dice was as such:

How does one start a bandwagon, Flying Dice? I can certainly see how one joins one. My reasons for voting you Flying Dice are as follows: You voted me for nonsensical reasons then took it off to avoid looking like you were attacking me. You jumped on a bandwagon D1 looking for an easy lynch. And so far your voting style looks like you're just following the crowd and trying to get someone lynched.

I question how you find a two-player vote on you, a bandwagon. Technically, as of latest votecount, you aren't the one on the lynching board in the sense of a bandwagon.

I don't think nonsensical was what he was seeing it as, pre-correction. Could you explain why Flying Dice jumped on a bandwagon? Post here seems panicking because of another vote.

Based on that last sentence [as FD's vote was focused on you], I can guess you're also saying that the crowd is trying to lynch...you? What statements made you think FD is following the crowd?

PPE Shakerag

Tiruin: Why do I mention you in my post to Deathsword?  Because of this timeline:
-D2 Starts
-Ds votes CA, suspects abc but says abc hasn't done anything scummy
-Tiruin votes abc (which, if I was scum, would be my #1 mislynch pick for D2)
-Tiruin pokes Ds to question abc
-Ds can't think of questions for abc, FoSes abc, then copies your question to abc
-Tiruin totally softballs Ds on the abc topic
-Ds now votes abc (again, ripe mislynch target) with a question I said not to ask

Note that this entire time abculatter_2 never made a post. 

So Deathsword starts off D2 voting the wrong guy, Tiruin pops in scumchat and tells Deathsword to vote the easy lynch guy (abc), and Deathsword bumblefucks his way over to voting him.

I don't understand what exactly you're asking about the "inertiawagon thing".  (As an aside, was this term thrown around before this game?  I don't really remember seeing it before, but I kind of like it anyway.)

Um. What?

That is my first reaction upon reading this. My first post of the day did poke the question, however it was because of the first sentence of his post. He suspected abc, but then states that he didn't do anything he considers scummy. Which I guess means: "Mostly avoiding questions or giving very vague answers." by his post. And, it isn't noted that he can't specifically think questions for abc, but for general scumhunting ascertained in the same post.

Basically, I see this all as a huge non sequitur. It doesn't match up, and you're working on a total implication on...that. That bolded post. Where in the world are you getting that kind of reasoning?

I'm not sure what you're also getting at by calling my note on him softballing, but I guess you're right there (if by softballing you mean by just stating something). That statement was typed in the intention of getting a reply, because it states the lack of the essence of this game - scumhunting, of which I received no reply whatsoever on that because I failed to turn it into an obvious question.

I'm asking on the inertia wagon because this is the only time I've seen the term.

Also, scum have an IC to point stuff out, and putting in the notion if you're with them and making a half-hearted reason such as this, I feel something is wrong with you. Why do you think abc was an easylynch when it was obvious that he didn't reply at all?

How does what you say make me scum, and with Deathsword, by your following inference?

[Teneb]

I don't know if I'll be able to post again today due to some problems with electricity, just an FYI.

Everyone's motivations to lynch me, as I managed to gather right now:
Shakerag: Thinks I tried to get an easylynch with abc with my scumbuddy Tiruin, who is now trying to bus me. (Tiruin is not my buddy, or scumbuddy, so if he is voting for me it's either because he is scum or he thinks I am scum.)
IronyOwl: I can't say I understand his reasons exactly, but I'll assume it's the same as Shakerag, excluding the scumbuddy part since I don't think he said that.
Tiruin: From what I've seen, he thinks I am lazy/bumbling scum. Or is scum himself trying to get a lynch done. Started pressuring me after being accused of being my scumbuddy and being questioned by me.
Theodolus: I don't really know why. Didn't place my name in red in last post, so is you vote still on me. Would you like to say why, for when I get lynched? (Probably will, with how things are going.)

I can, of course claim I am town. In fact I'll claim right now I am a vanilla townie, not that it'll change anyone's mind, but putting it out here so that if I end up lynched people may have something to go on.

[Jim Groovester]

[4] Deathsword: Shakerag, Theodolus, IronyOwl, Tiruin
[2] Chaos Armor: Deathsword, Flying Dice
[1] Flying Dice: Chaos Armor

Day ends Tonight 9:00 PM MST.

[Tiruin]

Deathsword, you're looking at where I'm seeing in a closed view. I never said anything about lazy/bumbling scum, Shakerag said it. The reason I'm voting you, is because you're being as scummy as hell, not because I'm being accused of being your scumbuddy and being questioned by you. Actually, I suspected you right off from my post which stated you that aren't scumhunting.

You evaded questions, and evasion of questions is not what a townie does. Next is, you repeat what others have said and say that you're unimaginative in answering or questioning; while this may not be scummy from where I saw it in a sense (flailing newbie), why my vote stuck on you from then on was because you keep contradicting yourself and yet still commit what you know is wrong. Felt like a RiA act to me and that you aren't helping by denying information on you.

I can, of course claim I am town. In fact I'll claim right now I am a vanilla townie, not that it'll change anyone's mind, but putting it out here so that if I end up lynched people may have something to go on.

Then this. You know that, people's roles (in a BM) are shown upon death, yes? What did you hope to gain by saying this statement?

[Chaos Armor]

Tiruin:

Chaos Armor
Your question to Flying Dice was as such:

How does one start a bandwagon, Flying Dice? I can certainly see how one joins one. My reasons for voting you Flying Dice are as follows: You voted me for nonsensical reasons then took it off to avoid looking like you were attacking me. You jumped on a bandwagon D1 looking for an easy lynch. And so far your voting style looks like you're just following the crowd and trying to get someone lynched.

I question how you find a two-player vote on you, a bandwagon. Technically, as of latest votecount, you aren't the one on the lynching board in the sense of a bandwagon.

I don't think nonsensical was what he was seeing it as, pre-correction. Could you explain why Flying Dice jumped on a bandwagon? Post here seems panicking because of another vote.

Based on that last sentence [as FD's vote was focused on you], I can guess you're also saying that the crowd is trying to lynch...you? What statements made you think FD is following the crowd?

First, I never said that a two player vote on me was a bandwagon. I was referring to the BMC Bandwagon on D1. Second, that post of mine was made when I had the most votes. Third, I don't know why Flying Dice jumped on a bandwagon. Looking back on it I'm not sure Flying Dice was necessarily jumping on a bandwagon as he had the same reasons as everyone else; but he was still following the crowd by putting a vote on BMC. Then he dropped a vote on me making me the leader in votes soon before I was to be lynched then posted the unvote after the day was extended. Flying Dice justified the original vote with reasons that should be used for a pressure vote. Yet this vote was going to be a lynching vote until the day was extended. This seems like he was trying to get me quick lynched and at the time of the unvote he didn't give any reasons as to why he unvoted me. To me that was scummy.


Deathsword:

Spoiler: Deathsword's post (click to show/hide)

Chaos Armor:

Deathsword:

Chaos Armor: Who do you think had the weakest case on BMC D1 and why?

I think Deathsword had the weakest case. Looking back on it he simply stated...

Furthermore, blackmagechill seems very defensive, even somwhat angry, when questioned by people other than me, so, for that, he gets my vote.

He includes the least amount of reasons and they are a little vague, so I see his as the worst.

"When questioned by people other than me". That statement just sticks out to me. I can't put a finger on it though.

I stated multiple times the detailed reasons for my vote, the first not long after that post, something you conveniently ignored. Are you trying to draw attention away from yourself by taking advantage of the fact that I'm the top suspect for some?

Let me point out where I made my case against BMC:

IronyOwl: Very well, I'll tell what I did read from that and why I kept it a secret.

I'll start with the why: I wasn't completely sure and I certainly wasn't confident enough about what I though to share with others, especially since it carried the risk of making me look stupid and even making my situation worse. So yes, it was partially out of fear and I admit that.


Now, what I did get from that: He seemed to misunderstand (intentionally or not) most of my statements. If it was because they were confusing for any reason, I apologize. However, he decided to FoS and later vote me because I "felt wierd". Now, this is (or was) RVS, thus voting to pressure is normal. However, when questioned himself he was clearly defensive, even angry, and kept re-stating the same things, mostly how I "felt wierd". This has led me to belive there is something off here and thus I hereby clearly and fully accuse him of being scum due to behaviour I belive to be that of scum.

My question to fiskav still stands, I'd like to know why.

and

Restating my case on BMC:

Keeps misunderstanding (I belive it's intentonally, but could be wrong on this one) statements by others.
He voted for me right after I FoS'ed him.
When questioned, he was defensive and seemed angry. Often repeating the same arguments.
Appears to be desperate with the concept of being lynched, and tried to make the lynch seem like a bad idea.

These are the main reasons I am quite sure he is scum, and thus my vote is on him.

You may not agree with them, but they are certainly not vague. So, why is it that you are twisting the facts, scum?

And here you get it wrong. BMC cast his suspicions on Deathy here, the one you quoted by the way.

So I'm a "Deathy" now? I'm flattered.

Well, that's what I get for posting at one in the morning. I saw the post that included your vote and read your reasons in that post. I hadn't realized you had stated other ones later on and if I had my brain was too befuddled to remember that.

Flying Dice:

Summary of Flying Dice's posts so far this day.
1. Accused me of starting a bandwagon and voted me. This vote, as I stated above, was going to be a vote that ended in me being lynched until the day was extended. Asked Theodolus a question.
2. Unvoted me, Chaos Armor, then in his defense he explained his reasons for voting me. Never explained why he unvoted me in that post.
3. He claimed to have removed his vote because he wasn't sure if I was just newbie town or scum. Then at the end of the post he voted me again and tried to draw attention from himself by reminding everyone that the IC's could be scum.
4. Tried to explain away the reasons for unvoting me then revoting me.

In summary:
Blah, blah, blah I'm trying to appear active by throwing one or two questions at other players then not following up, defending myself, and attacking Chaos Armor for nonsensical reasons.


In post three you posted,

Looking back, you did mention that you were having internet problems (though you still managed to make several votes)

What do you mean by "still managed to make several votes"?

For two, what are your reasons for voting me now, scum? The last I checked they seemed to consist mostly of "He started a bandwagon".



Extend. I have some doubt as to Deathsword being scum, but I am sure that Flying Scum is. I would rather lynch a player I'm convinced to be scum instead of a player I have doubts of.

[Teneb]

I can, of course claim I am town. In fact I'll claim right now I am a vanilla townie, not that it'll change anyone's mind, but putting it out here so that if I end up lynched people may have something to go on.

Then this. You know that, people's roles (in a BM) are shown upon death, yes? What did you hope to gain by saying this statement?

By that I mean that, after my lynch, the situation may be re-evaluated, not unlike what happened with the attacks on BMC.