Topic: minimum population ignores pop_cap (Read 8727 times)

Finn · « **Reply #30 on:** May 31, 2012, 08:11:13 pm »

You're not supposed to get caravans or liaisons. When the liaison comes the announcement lists the city that they are from, that's the mountain home.

I finished my population_cap testing. It definately looks like 4 is the minimum population where population_cap is respected. At 3 dwarves or lower migrations continue regardless of the population_cap.

Test 3:
DF 34.07, DFHack, DwarfTherapist
Fortress Starting Year, 262
POPULATION_CAP:0
Population 7

ha = "horrible accident"

262
started in summer with SAVEPOINT A
summer: population 9, ha - population 3
autumn: migrants - pop 9, ha - pop 3, liaison arrives
winter: no migrants, liaison leaves

263
spring: migrants - pop 8
SAVEPOINT D

Test 4
DF 34.07, DFHack, DwarfTherapist
Fortress Starting Year, 262
POPULATION_CAP:0
Population 7

ha = "horrible accident"

262
started in summer with SAVEPOINT A
summer: population 9, ha - population 4
autumn: migrants - pop 11, ha - pop 4, liaison arrives and leaves
winter: no migrants

263
spring: no migrants

Conclusion: Population_cap is ignored if population is below 4 when the liaison visits.

I will do some further testing later to see if the migrations turn on and off based on this population number.

vjek · « **Reply #31 on:** May 31, 2012, 09:44:20 pm »

So others can replicate my observations..

worldgen:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(sorry for elevation map in the worldgen, i know it's a big cut/paste, it was faster to designate the mountains rather than waiting on the RNG to place them.)

world_sites_and_pops.txt:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

first year after embark resulted in...
summer - migrants (4)
autumn - migrants (4)
- liaison & caravan visited for winter -
spring - migrants (23)

This was done with a vanilla 34.10 install, no modifications of any kind. And as you can see, zero dwarves in the world after worldgen was done. Interestingly, both the outpost liaison and caravan came from "Zon Kod", which is the "Helm of Blotting" civ.

It would seem that as long as there WAS a dwarven civ at some point, even if there are no dwarves remaining, they are perfectly happy to send inhabitants concocted out of Armok's ether to populate your fort.

knutor · « **Reply #32 on:** June 01, 2012, 10:30:19 pm »

NP. I don't think all those PS_EL digits are necessary. Just whats above it, for us to duplicate it.

I think you nailed it Vjek. The dwarf sites are holding their ownership, even without a dwarf owner present, and with that generating trade, out of the clear blue. Or from THAT subregion. I imagine, Toady imagine's the region to have bands of whatever, capable of trade, even without an orgin or depot trade location.

My guesstimation is that there was no switching of the flags, when the game labeled the place at the start, and then populated by something else other than its owner. How that mtn hall still is owned by dwarfs, is amazing to me. Just look at that almost 10k goblins in it. Seems illogical its still owned by a dwarf, and not a gob. But thats maybe wrong, because without a civ check, half of these goblins, could very well have been humans, and/or elves. With that check off, maybe all further checks, like ownership, get null'd. What do you think?

Code: [Select]

1: Koln‹ng, "Wheelburn", mountain halls
   Owner: The Roads of Extricating, dwarves
   Parent Civ: The Helm of Blotting, dwarves
   9239 goblins

I did see that you put the.. [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:0] Its nice to see Goblins are not counted as a Civilization. I was unaware of that, and I don't think the Wiki has that data. I was under the impression, they were a Civ, as tab relationships menu lists them as one.

As in most cases, Goblins act as a generated Civ. This proves they fall outside that one Civ parameter. I wonder which others they fall outside, in order to have a balanced foe, I can see the need for a blanketing enemy code. I don't see a Kobold or Undead in that worldgen, either. Without any evil land, it makes sense to not have an Undead Civ or Tower. It also makes sense that without mtn caves or nonmtn caves, there would be no Kobold Civ.

Just Goblins. Cool. There must be a black gate like in Warcraft, letting in the Dwarf Parent Civ liasons and traders. ha. As they are certainly not coming from a site.

I think the min pop ignores historic migrants, and pulls them out of the clear blue, have always thought that. could this Tracker skill on some, indicated that they were tracked by the game prior to their visit, maybe. All the migrants without Tracker.. clear blue migrants, visiting from the twilight zone? That is a little disappointing. I had hopes every soul was tracked. *sigh*

It defeats that fascinating idea of interacting with a larger and more complex world and its various unequal inhabitants. If all these friendlies are poofing in, from the twilight zone, my evenings are now a little less thrilling. I'm gonna do some testing with this too. Knutor

News:

Author Topic: minimum population ignores pop_cap (Read 8727 times)

Finn

Re: minimum population ignores pop_cap

vjek

Re: minimum population ignores pop_cap

knutor

Re: minimum population ignores pop_cap