Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[bombzero]

Sorry, didn't realize I was making a thread on the minecraft forums or something, figured people were willing to actually do something constructive here.

[ctharvey]

Sorry, didn't realize I was making a thread on the minecraft forums or something, figured people were willing to actually do something constructive here.

Your idea of constructive doesn't actually equal the meaning of constructive. I am now done feeding the troll.  Just reporting thread and moving on.

[alexandertnt]

I really, really dont see how the OP is trolling, just someone who missed the "What turns you off about DF?" thread. If that thread did not exist this thread would seem quite reasonable. the first post doesn't at all seem to be written by a 13 year old.

Your idea of constructive doesn't actually equal the meaning of constructive. I am now done feeding the troll.  Just reporting thread and moving on.

Starting a thread to discuss what turns them away from the game isn't constructive (given the scenario where the OP was not aware of the original thread)? mkay.

[bombzero]

yeah, but alexander its about what I have come to expect from the DF community, hence the 2-3 times in the OP when I ask people not to do that.

[Manveru Taurënér]

Well, maybe if you hadn't used phrases such as "fucking joke" etc to describe aspects you find unsatisfactory people might have taken you seriously. I don't see how that in any way could ever be used in a constructive argument :>

[alexandertnt]

yeah, but alexander its about what I have come to expect from the DF community, hence the 2-3 times in the OP when I ask people not to do that.

It was only really one person, not the whole community though. But any thread like this is going to ruffle a few feathers.

Well, maybe if you hadn't used phrases such as "fucking joke" etc to describe aspects you find unsatisfactory people might have taken you seriously. I don't see how that in any way could ever be used in a constructive argument :>

Yeah, the language was a bit harsh. I wouldnt call it a "fucking joke", I quite enjoy playing adventure mode occasionally, even if is a bit lacking.

[Naryar]

Can we go back to the original discussion rather than the bickering ? No game is perfect, and criticizing only makes it grow. Just ignore the actual trolls.

I think this game should be more moddable in-depth. Sure it has great modding potential, but none of the deeper stuff are available.

Also the UI should be more developed, although Toady will improve it eventually it's becoming really repetitive to build a wall. And macros are a bit annoying as well.

[bombzero]

Modding is definitely a key point, moving EVERYTHING into the RAWs is just not feasible, nor is adding a nested coding language at this point.

It seems that the more stuff can be moved to the raws the better, workshops should probably take priority there.

[Spinning Welshman]

Well, firstly, if you want a criticism topic to be seen as constructive you have to avoid emotional embellishments like fucking joke.

Stuff like that is just going to make people think you're raging.

Also, I do not see the reason to complain about the lack of certain features that we know are being worked on in the near future (persistent world after world gen, one of your examples)

However, I do see the point in criticising areas that don't show a promise of improvement in the near future.

So my candidate for something I find to be a problem with DFs current state is that it steadily uses more and more resources as a fortress gets older, no matter how neat you keep it. (I think this is due to records of every entity that died in the fort being kept after death, for the purpose of memorials and such, which just leads to more and more data being stored as time goes by)

I have no idea how that could be changed without losing the ability to memorialise things, but for me it's the most serious limiting factor.

[bombzero]

hmm.. do you think its just entities, or other stuff as well?

could it be exported to hardrive and just dumped?

cant really form an opinion without knowing how its being stored.

[Spinning Welshman]

hmm.. do you think its just entities, or other stuff as well?

could it be exported to hardrive and just dumped?

cant really form an opinion without knowing how its being stored.

I'm far from knowledgeable enough about how this stuff works to answer you.

I just read a thread somewhere about it, and it was the only thing that makes sense as the reason why forts gradually slow down over time without any new digging, or more creatures/items.

I guess it would be possible to give us an option to erase entity data from the missing/deceased tab if we knew we weren't going to use it. After all, who needs to know just how many thousands of ravens have died on your weapon traps?

But apart from that I really don't know what could be done.

[alexandertnt]

As for late-game resource hogging, it definetely seems like an area that needs improvement. Compiling to x64 would relieve the memory-storage issues (at least if you have lots of ram and a x64 system), but I know that is another discussion.

And an integrated programming language for modding would be absolutely brilliant, as the RAW's are rather awkward (but this would be a very large undertaking).

I dont honostly think the interface is that bad, but a few tweaks would massively help (eg remembering scroll positon, more helpful error messages (instead of "b"-"d" No Door, which is extreemly unhelpful to a new player), better categorisation etc)

Improvements to the AI and whatever else so forts are not made invincible by walling/walling-cage-traps etc (I know this is a goal, but at the moment its quite an issue).

Improvements to the graphics. Yes that always lets off a sigh, but personally I wouldn't want much. Just a unique tile per thing (so my gears dont look like gems or vice versa). I generally play in ASCII because I dont like my gears looking like gems and similar issues.

And bugs. Always an issue. Some seriously annoying ones have been around forever. Toady as started work fixing some though (no more walling-self-in!  ), and this is excellent.

Also combat. The damage model has issues with some things (eg bruising is basically nothing, rotting cant fully rot something, burning cant fully burn something etc), and combat seems to spontaneous. As in someone will either chip your nail or chop your head off.

[chewie]

Cause lets face it, in its current state, Dwarf Fortress really aint all that impressive.

I think one problem is that nobody here understands how you could possibly say that, for example. There is SO MUCH STUFF in the game right now. For example the health & thought system. Major organs like the heart, the lungs, the brain and the nerves are more or less properly rendered and hurting/damaging them mostly does what you would expect. Or dwarven psychology. There are so many things that affect the happiness of your dwarves, whereby everyone of them has his/her own preferences and proberties ("little willpower", "a sharp intellect"). Sadly those attributes aren't very important gameplay-wise, but they're in and I'm sure roleplayers and the likes appreciate them.

DF has many small game mechanics systems like that and they add together to a quite deep and enormous game.

So my candidate for something I find to be a problem with DFs current state is that it steadily uses more and more resources as a fortress gets older, no matter how neat you keep it. (I think this is due to records of every entity that died in the fort being kept after death, for the purpose of memorials and such, which just leads to more and more data being stored as time goes by)

This. I hate it when my 30-pop-minimalist fort slows down just because it gets older.

------------------

I also see many complaints about the interface (not especially in here, I mean in general) which I don't quite understand. I see three things that should be redone, the rest can wait until the actual UI arc.

1. The terrible apect ratios of, for example the trade or the units screen where the lower half of the screen is just empty.

2. Wall building

3. This.

[bombzero]

Well, what I meant with that statement is this:

1) what effect do personalities even have on the game atm? whether a dwarf does something now or later? whether or not they make friends which themselves have no effect? its a wonderful system yes, but it just doesn't tie in to the game all that well.

2) we have all these tons of industry features, that we just have no reason to use, I mean why set up anything other then food, clothing and metalworking?

mostly it just seems that way too many features are less-then-half implemented, and that a few features are digressing instead of growing with each new bug fix.

[Ethnar]

rampant misguided praise and cultism

aint all that impressive

fucking easy

I don't really care what you say

fucking joke

I sincerely wish you that you were not trying to be taken seriously.