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[Leafsnail]

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

I don't think this is really left open to interpretation. That is some pretty clear language there.

Present tense.  "I don't know how general relativity works" doesn't imply that I'll never know, nor does "Noone knows next week's lottery numbers" mean that they'll remain a mystery forever.  Jesus might've just been saying it was too early to predict at that point.

I agree that people like Harold Camping are doing something irresponsible and wrong.  I don't think it automatically follows that their interpretation of the Bible is any less valid than mainstream ones.

[justinlee999]

To me, Jesus also seems fond of paying his taxes, something which many rich corporate Conservative Christians are ignoring.

JUST MY INTERPRETATION.

[MaximumZero]

I hereby interpret the Bible in a way that we can murder all heretic scum.

On a more serious note, I don't think Christians should be disagreeing with the fact that the Bible can be interpreted into anyone's whim.

Doesn't that make it utterly useless, then?

[justinlee999]

I hereby interpret the Bible in a way that we can murder all heretic scum.

On a more serious note, I don't think Christians should be disagreeing with the fact that the Bible can be interpreted into anyone's whim.

Doesn't that make it utterly useless, then?

Well, supposedly Christians believe in what happened in the Bible, which is Adam & Eve, but even then it can be considered as a metaphor of some sort, with evolution being accepted among many religious circles.

But there's still use in a book that can be interpreted to anyone's whim, even used for good things, like persuading religious people to contribute society; something like a double edged sword.

[MaximumZero]

I hereby interpret the Bible in a way that we can murder all heretic scum.

On a more serious note, I don't think Christians should be disagreeing with the fact that the Bible can be interpreted into anyone's whim.

Doesn't that make it utterly useless, then?

Well, supposedly Christians believe in what happened in the Bible, which is (anything in the bible)

How can anyone believe anything that can be twisted to mean anything? I mean, yeah, I'm an atheist, but even I can quote chapter and verse to make a point (I usually use Kings 2, 1-6, wherein god's forces lose because their enemies have iron chariots.) What good does that do for anyone? Furthermore, why would people need to hear someone else say, "Do good things!" in order to...well...do good things? Why not just do them anyway?

[Fenrir]

Furthermore, why would people need to hear someone else say, "Do good things!" in order to...well...do good things? Why not just do them anyway?

People don’t for some reason, so perhaps “Behave, or burn forever,” while unverifiable and inconsistent with a benevolent god’s nature, has its uses.

[MaximumZero]

Furthermore, why would people need to hear someone else say, "Do good things!" in order to...well...do good things? Why not just do them anyway?

People don’t for some reason, so perhaps “Behave, or burn forever,” while unverifiable and inconsistent with a benevolent god’s nature, has its uses.

That...is terribly saddening.

[Fenrir]

Furthermore, why would people need to hear someone else say, "Do good things!" in order to...well...do good things? Why not just do them anyway?

People don’t for some reason, so perhaps “Behave, or burn forever,” while unverifiable and inconsistent with a benevolent god’s nature, has its uses.

That...is terribly saddening.

Sad? Perhaps, but not surprising. You knew humans beings can be inexplicably evil, and they frequently need incentive to behave.

Of course, it is possible that people do not take the threat of Hell so seriously and deeply as would be necessary for an effective deterrent, and I would be interested if anyone had any studies on the matter.

Christians on this board, please note that I mean not to suggest that all Christians require coercion to be good people, and I suspect that most of them do not.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Promising someone Heaven and threatening them with Hell is just a carrot and stick argument, except in this case both the carrot and the stick are ethereal and unverifiable.

Also, humans can't comprehend "forever", so it's not that surprising that it fails to be effective even in those who do believe in it.

[Fenrir]

Promising someone Heaven and threatening them with Hell is just a carrot and stick argument, except in this case both the carrot and the stick are ethereal and unverifiable.

It is not really an argument. I would certainly prefer a less crufty solution for keeping people in line. I was responding to MZ’s suggestion that we do not not need a deity to be good people, and he is right. We do not. Other people on the other hand—

Now that I think of it, a book that is so open to interpretation is hardly a good means to enforce anything, as one can make it fit whatever one wants anyway, so, again, perhaps I am mistaken.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

No one needs a deity to be a good person. No one who has ever become an atheist or changed religions has suddenly lost all moral perspective.

[alway]

I'm calling BS. Statistically, there's no difference so far as I'm aware, religion or no, relating to the committing of crimes aside from those correlations related to more pertinent circumstances such as poverty and education.

Atheists are under represented in the prison population; this is likely due to atheists statistically having more education and more wealth than the average population. Likewise, those denominations tied to lower education, lower wealth demographics are over represented in the prison population. Regardless of what a preacher might tell you, someone robbing a bank is not going to think 'what would jesus do,' but rather will be quite pre-occupied with 'if I don't rob this bank, I can't pay for <necessity X>'

[Fenrir]

I'm calling BS.

I think I have been fairly honest, and I never said I was sure of any of it, so I think it a bit of a reach to call my posts BS.

I have had this very conversation with my mother from the opposite side, and I could not really verify that no one needed religion to keep in line, so I had to relent and concede it is possible that religion has a use. No one would be more pleased than I to discover that religion is quite detrimental and we were better off without it.

[Flying Dice]

I'm calling BS. Statistically, there's no difference so far as I'm aware, religion or no, relating to the committing of crimes aside from those correlations related to more pertinent circumstances such as poverty and education.

Mind sharing your sources? For that matter, much of the world is so thoroughly religious that there isn't really a large enough body of atheists to provide a proper comparison. Not that it would affect things; I suspect that atheists who feel the need for an external motivation to be good people can find one rather easily. Religion isn't the only tool for herding people, merely one of the most readily available ones. I'm reminded of an old saying about why sheep are more dangerous than goats; the latter must be lead, while the former can be driven.

[alway]

Here's one with a pretty decent summary of it, though it isn't very specific. Though the same general conclusions I've heard quite often from a variety of sources online. Essentially it boils down to religion or lack thereof being a poor predictor of behavior, with much more accurate correlations found relating to education, income, and the other typical predictors which put one at higher or lower risk of committing a crime.