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Author Topic: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment  (Read 2998 times)

dwarfhoplite

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New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« on: May 27, 2012, 12:52:25 am »

Currently when a dwarf dies, they drop all their stuff on the floor. Then someone carries their naked corpses to the coffins and their other things to stockpiles.

I suggest that dwarves' items were put in the coffin before it's sealed forever. This would include all their clothes including armor and jewelry.
My argument is that the game has too little things to make in the mid-late game. This would encourage continuous digging for metals and busy metal and clothing industry if you lose a lot dwarves.
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woose1

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2012, 12:55:36 am »

I would make it optional; it'd be all sorts of rage if your masterwork adamantine plate-mail armor set got dumped in a grave and was completely unrecoverable.

...However, ceremonial funerals are in the works, I think, as a long-term goal. It might be implemented then, but probably not in the way you described.
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catoblepas

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2012, 01:23:20 am »

I don't think dwarves being buried with your masterwork adamantine armor and weapons would be a problem, considering weapons and armor assigned to dwarves do not become their property (property of the state). That being said, I can imagine down the road when the economy is worked on further dwarves might buy and own equipment of their own. At any rate, property items are what would be buried (I would also like to see inheritance of some kind as well), not public property. Such things are not normally controllable by the player anyways (can't sell the clothes of a living dwarf in the current version, to my knowledge) so I don't think it would impact the game greatly in any manner that would be frustrating to the player. It would be realistic and less creepy as well.

Some other related suggestions:

-Dwarves should have the possibility of passing down some items to their decendents.

-Coffins should act as containers for these items-if they own too many items to fit in a coffin, the remaining items will be placed in their tomb, either in containers or on the floor (items they are attatched to, were the most valuable will go in the coffin with them) If there is still too many items, the remainder will be passed on to their surviving family, or become public property if none are living. (anything they are wearing at the time of their death will be exempt from becoming private property).

-Looting these tombs later as an adventurer should be possible.

-unscrupulous dwarves or outside npcs should also steal during fortress mode-traps will be an effective method of preventing this.

-ghosts might appear and haunt/curse the robber if the deceased dwarf was especially greedy or if the stolen object was very expensive or otherwise precious to them.
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King Mir

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2012, 01:26:22 am »

Dwarves do currently put items owned items in tomb when the owner dies.

Bytyan

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2012, 02:36:47 pm »

I think that losing the equipment off dead military dwarves would be a fun game mechanic, forcing the player to doll out steel and spoilersteel sparingly. I already have an elite squad separated from the rest of my military, who move in bronze and cut in steel.
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dizzyelk

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2012, 03:00:11 pm »

I think that military items should only be put with the dwarf when they're buried if they have a tomb set up before hand, the item in question is one they're attached to, and there's a rack/stand for it in the tomb. I also think that you should be able to use the item for a short time. Cause that would set up the scenario of a mighty dwarven hero dying in battle, his axe, Claspedcleave, laid to rest with him. Years down the road a siege has broken past your military, you're down to the last handful of dwarves, one of them runs into the tomb, grabbing the legendary Claspedcleave and goes forth to do battle against the evil invaders.

Its mainly because I already set up fancy tombs for my champions, and it would be nice for them to have their favored weapons and armor. But I wouldn't want the average soldier's equipment buried with them, they're a dime a dozen.
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10ebbor10

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2012, 03:00:53 pm »

I think that losing the equipment off dead military dwarves would be a fun game mechanic, forcing the player to doll out steel and spoilersteel sparingly. I already have an elite squad separated from the rest of my military, who move in bronze and cut in steel.
To me it just seems to worsen certain scenarios, outside of player control. Exhibit A: Something attacks and kills the entire militia, wherether in the beginning, near the middle or at the end of a fortress, this would more often than not be a death blow. Not only is the militia gone, but their equipment is lost too. I would like it to be optionable. The player will be able to decide wherether a dwarf is buried with his armor or not, via the orders menu or something. Burying the dwarf with his gear would give positive thoughts to relatives / all dwarves, depending on how skilled he was. (Dwarves might not really care if a recruit was buried without armor, but their Champion must be treated with respect). This give players a nice seesaw, wherether or not to risk causing a tantrum spiral  or loose valuable equipment.

Named equipment would either be buried or given to heirs. Artifacts would be inherited or given back to community, probably the latter. Also, it would be Fun if players could, when there's an absolute emergency, order their soldiers to take the equipment of the death. Happines effect would be based on the difference between skill level and wearer, some personality values and if you haven't got any other weapons lying around.

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Mr. Palau

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2012, 03:49:26 pm »

I think that military items should only be put with the dwarf when they're buried if they have a tomb set up before hand, the item in question is one they're attached to, and there's a rack/stand for it in the tomb. I also think that you should be able to use the item for a short time. Cause that would set up the scenario of a mighty dwarven hero dying in battle, his axe, Claspedcleave, laid to rest with him. Years down the road a siege has broken past your military, you're down to the last handful of dwarves, one of them runs into the tomb, grabbing the legendary Claspedcleave and goes forth to do battle against the evil invaders.

Its mainly because I already set up fancy tombs for my champions, and it would be nice for them to have their favored weapons and armor. But I wouldn't want the average soldier's equipment buried with them, they're a dime a dozen.
THAT SOUNDS SO COOL! I wish it was in the game.
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WealthyRadish

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2012, 04:01:41 pm »

If they have a tomb, it sounds fine, but I don't think generic coffins should. Having them come back as a ghost if the items are removed sounds awesome as well.

Though I think that there should be a positive thought tied to having a tomb (for non-nobles) if this were added. That way, it's a trade-off between keeping soldiers happier, and losing their equipment on death. Otherwise it's a rather pointless mechanic.
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King Mir

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2012, 04:54:49 pm »

It already happens with tombs. For owned items at least.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2012, 05:23:45 pm »

I think there should be a menu when you look at an occupied coffin/tomb with 'q,' where you could store armor/weapons/etc that had a great personal significance to that dwarf. It would lead to happy thoughts on the part of the dwarf, and maybe the dwarf's ghost would come back, wielding spectral versions of its entombed gear, in times of great need. I can imagine what it would have been like if that had happened in older versions...
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Pikdome

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2012, 05:46:20 pm »

If the dead rise and are armed, it'd make it advisable to just forgo the whole arming zombies and skeletons.
Unless they came back on our behalf to fight for us.... well then I'd bury them armed to the teeth.
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peskyninja

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2012, 05:51:20 pm »

Dwarves do currently put items owned items in tomb when the owner dies.
No they don't. They just store their shit in any avaible room.
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Bytyan

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2012, 06:54:00 pm »

Perhaps happiness (or loss there of) should come from expectations of what happens to thier equipment, generated on a civ level and set by default in the standing orders. One civ could expect that every mulitia be buried with his weapon, and buried in armor if they were an honered warrior, and another would expect all equipment buried with every recruit, and yet another have no expectations of burial, but require a solemn keg stand. Exceeding expectations would please the living, depending on how close they were to the person (squad mates/immediate family more so than other military/friends more so than random schmucks) and elevated further by the warriors reputation (notable kills) If the champion dies, and you honor him with a feast and bury him well when no one expected anything, you might have a null happiness drop. If they expected a feast and a solid gold tomb, and you dropped his corpse down the migrant tube, people might be upset.
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King Mir

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Re: New item sink - Bury the deceased with their equipment
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2012, 11:14:31 pm »

Dwarves do currently put items owned items in tomb when the owner dies.
No they don't. They just store their shit in any avaible room.
I have in my current fort several tombs, one occupied by a dead dwarf. Ony that one is littered with clothes.
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