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[RoseHeart]

Unless a case can be made for disobedience or bad behavior, excluding sign ups for a game should be listed in the forum guidelines under bullying. Bay 12 FG&RP has a festering pro clique, elitist environment. If you want to play with just your friends, you shouldn't post your game on a public forum.

[Man of Paper]

Every forum ever has a festering pro clique, elitist environment once you look closely enough.

Fixed that for you. Also, just out of curiosity, could you point me to the offending games? I'm curious to see how it was handled.

I also lightly disagree. A GM's job is first and foremost to facilitate fun for all the players (and themselves). Even if someone isn't "disobedient" or "bad" they can still have a negative impact on the game as a whole for any number of other reasons. While obviously just blacklisting people for shits and giggles isn't great, "I don't like you", "we don't get along", "you and x can't play nice together", and "you cannot/have not/will not be able to positively add to the game" are all perfectly fine reasons to use when telling someone you're not gonna let them in. Provided you, you know, actually tell them.

That's not bullying, that's curating. There's a thin line there, and it can get crossed easy, but there's a line nonetheless.

[Iris]

Since this is apparently a discussion we're having, I wanted to add my two cents. I am pointedly avoiding any discussions of cliques, and instead wanted to focus on this.

I also lightly disagree. A GM's job is first and foremost to facilitate fun for all the players (and themselves). Even if someone isn't "disobedient" or "bad" they can still have a negative impact on the game as a whole for any number of other reasons. While obviously just blacklisting people for shits and giggles isn't great, "I don't like you", "we don't get along", "you and x can't play nice together", and "you cannot/have not/will not be able to positively add to the game" are all perfectly fine reasons to use when telling someone you're not gonna let them in. Provided you, you know, actually tell them.

That's not bullying, that's curating. There's a thin line there, and it can get crossed easy, but there's a line nonetheless.

I do have to agree with this, but "I don't like you" seems a little petty to me. "If I let you into this game we would constantly clash" seems reasonable, though. I do absolutely agree with the thin line, though.

[Maximum Spin]

Every forum ever has a festering pro clique, elitist environment once you look closely enough.

Fixed that for you. Also, just out of curiosity, could you point me to the offending games? I'm curious to see how it was handled.

I also lightly disagree. A GM's job is first and foremost to facilitate fun for all the players (and themselves). Even if someone isn't "disobedient" or "bad" they can still have a negative impact on the game as a whole for any number of other reasons. While obviously just blacklisting people for shits and giggles isn't great, "I don't like you", "we don't get along", "you and x can't play nice together", and "you cannot/have not/will not be able to positively add to the game" are all perfectly fine reasons to use when telling someone you're not gonna let them in. Provided you, you know, actually tell them.

That's not bullying, that's curating. There's a thin line there, and it can get crossed easy, but there's a line nonetheless.

Yeah, there are definitely a few people I would not under any circumstances want to play with or allow into a game I'm running. Roseheart, I think, thinks he's one of them, but actually isn't.

I think roseheart is being silly to say that there's a clique environment here, though. There is kind of a clique of a few people who seem to organize on a Discord to post closed games occasionally, which seems to have a little overlap with the FEF people, but it's pretty rare to see any closed games, and generally, I think they just like things nobody else particularly does.
Simply put, I can't believe the idea that there is a "festering pro clique, elitist environment" given that I had no problem being included, and I'm not exactly the easiest person to socialize with.

[Maximum Spin]

Exclusion happens on every online space, I'm not very present on FG but from my observations in GD, ostracism and selectiveness does occur in this forum, altough I don't think it's coming from a place of malice for most cases. It is natural that within the forum in-groups form and certain people (new users and users with a repeated history of behaviour that is considered innapropriate) won't be part of it.

Oh, GD people and FG people don't have that much overlap. GD people can be assholes, sure.

I don't remember seeing any game threads from you, though.

(The study is complete garbage, but that's neither here nor there.)

[Man of Paper]

Since this is apparently a discussion we're having, I wanted to add my two cents. I am pointedly avoiding any discussions of cliques, and instead wanted to focus on this.

I am admittedly less interested in the discussion and just wanted to pad my post with more than "show evidence", because I'm not entirely convinced roseheart isn't doing that "make up issues or pretend something is more prominent than it actually is" thing again.

[Maximum Spin]

I only read a bit about the study, but now I see what you mean, now that I've taken a closer look  It's gone now.

Aw, you didn't have to delete it. It was a good case study in how you have to really look at the actual data and claims being made.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if most people just didn't look in this thread. I certainly wouldn't have expected to see someone's game idea here. You don't have to worry about making new threads for things, they're free.

[RoseHeart]

This is the largest section on bay 12 (by on average more than 10 times!), only place that comes kinda close is general discussion(other games, a distant third...) ...what the hell are we doing here? lol

Are there any true Forum Game websites? It always seems an offshoot of a videogame or other interest.

[Man of Paper]

Also, just out of curiosity, could you point me to the offending games? I'm curious to see how it was handled.

That’s cool but you got some links for the last thing you shouted into the room before promptly leaving?

[RoseHeart]

Also, just out of curiosity, could you point me to the offending games? I'm curious to see how it was handled.

That’s cool but you got some links for the last thing you shouted into the room before promptly leaving?

No Paper, I'm not going to call someone out.

[Man of Paper]

Narrator: There we’re no links.

[RoseHeart]

Wasn't one of your games, you're fine.

[RoseHeart]

Why has no one made a pvp FEoF with two threads like an Arms Race?

[IamanElfCollaborator]

-snip-

As a veteran GM on this section who's had to deal with more than his fair share of drama from players who turned out to be massive issues leading directly to trashfires, I wholeheartedly agree. A GM has a duty to his players to curate his players if he feels that letting someone in would be more detrimental than not. If a player already proves to be an issue even during selection, then you're ultimately going to cause more problems letting them in and making your players uncomfortable than putting your foot down and telling him "No".

As for gathering on a Discord to play games, as one of the peeps moderating the FEF Discord, I see no real issue with this; most everyone uses Discord nowadays, it's easier to moderate against potential issues, easier to further subdivide what would originally have been covered by OOC threads and so forth. Not that there's anything particularly wrong with the traditional way of doing things, either, but if you're gonna want to do the same things we used to through PMs here or on separate IRC chats (as FEF used to and I know for a fact a lot of DND campaigns used to do here), might as well do it on an interface everyone uses. If you don't want to be part of a community that gathers around a Discord, that's not on them for being clique-y IMO, but simply wanting to use existing infrastructure and wanting to share their interests with people who are also interested.

[notquitethere]

Why has no one made a pvp FEoF with two threads like an Arms Race?

It's not impossible, but the main draw of FeF (as far as I can tell) is character driven interaction within an excessively crunchy tactical RPG— PvP would be a bit more difficult to draw out those kinds of interactions, and it's slow enough processing fights on a forum without wrangling two teams.

Not saying it couldn't be done though.