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[RoseHeart]

Why has no one made a pvp FEoF with two threads like an Arms Race?

It's not impossible, but the main draw of FeF (as far as I can tell) is character driven interaction within an excessively crunchy tactical RPG— PvP would be a bit more difficult to draw out those kinds of interactions, and it's slow enough processing fights on a forum without wrangling two teams.

Not saying it couldn't be done though.

I imagine they would be pve campaigns, mostly.

As a veteran GM on this section who's had to deal with more than his fair share of drama from players who turned out to be massive issues leading directly to trashfires, I wholeheartedly agree. A GM has a duty to his players to curate his players if he feels that letting someone in would be more detrimental than not. If a player already proves to be an issue even during selection, then you're ultimately going to cause more problems letting them in and making your players uncomfortable than putting your foot down and telling him "No".

That's what a clique is, going into a public space and forming segregated groups.



If there is a problem then it should be escalated. I think it would be worthwhile (and humorous in most cases) having to be accountable to a higher authority why you* practiced exclusionary behavior. We might actually wait more than 0.02 seconds before slapping the eject button, and become kind of...idk...cohesive community.

*hypothetical person escalating complaint

[Maximum Spin]

That's what a clique is, going into a public space and forming segregated groups.

If there is a problem then it should be escalated. I think it would be worthwhile (and humorous in most cases) having to be accountable to a higher authority why you* practiced exclusionary behavior. We might actually wait more than 0.02 seconds before slapping the eject button, and become kind of...idk...cohesive community.

*hypothetical person escalating complaint

That's insane. To dislike someone is a natural right of all human beings. Nobody should be expected to justify his dislike to the god of forum non-discrimination.

Your definition of a "clique" includes every club, organization, or even just group of friends in existence.

[RoseHeart]

Is there a flipside that could be taken to an extreme? Of course.

But in actual practice, I just feel like there's a lot of pointing and yelling CRING! (See Above Post.)

[RoseHeart]

It's the Bay 12 Forum Games and Roleplaying community, but feels pretty fractured. I've never kicked a player out of a game, maybe that's my own flexibly, or poor discretion. Either way, that's the experience I am drawing from.

If the notion of having to escalate thread banning/excluding makes you nervous, perhaps you should consider why you need to exclude a high enough volume of players for that to be an issue, on a public forum.

[Man of Paper]

Again, please provide proof that the issue you’re trying to make a hill to die on even exists.

[RoseHeart]

Again, please provide proof that the issue you’re trying to make a hill to die on even exists.

No.

But I'd be willing to discuss random cases a host volunteered.

[Man of Paper]

Just provide some proof that what you keep railing about is actually a thing here, my guy.

[IamanElfCollaborator]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

If you refuse to provide any sort of evidence that FGRP isn't an open community with smaller sub-communities, and instead demand that we trust your insistence that we are opposed to outsiders of any type or kind, we are not obligated to believe it or even lend credence to it.

For my part, at least, the FEF community is generally welcoming to anyone who wants in, and I've never had any issues entering other forum game communities if I saw fit, nor do I see any reason that I would. (I rarely do so anymore, granted, because I'm a lot more comfortable running FEFs, but if the interest strikes...)

[Maximum Spin]

I can only think of a total of one case of someone actually, in practice, getting excluded: Supernerd banning orca trooper.

I think it was entirely justified.

[Powder Miner]

It's not impossible, but the main draw of FeF (as far as I can tell) is character driven interaction within an excessively crunchy tactical RPG— PvP would be a bit more difficult to draw out those kinds of interactions, and it's slow enough processing fights on a forum without wrangling two teams.

Not saying it couldn't be done though.

It's been tried before, on another forum, and rather conclusively cratered. Very few FEF players are actually interested in doing PVP, and even if they are, you have to have people willing and able to run two simultaneous games of a very intensive genre consistently, and two sets of players willing and able to play consistently. It's a huge ask.

Regarding the larger discussion: I think even trying to get into details is unnecessary at best. The method of moderation on Bay12 precludes any moderation where a board mod double-checks each thread's decision on their players (this is a concept that mandates strenuous levels of moderation and constant controversy), and we're on Bay12 because it's our community. Pretty much anything that goes "why are we even on bay12" or demands a change that is incompatible with how Toady runs the forum is enough of a non-starter that the assumption can be that it simply isn't relevant.

[RoseHeart]

It's not impossible, but the main draw of FeF (as far as I can tell) is character driven interaction within an excessively crunchy tactical RPG— PvP would be a bit more difficult to draw out those kinds of interactions, and it's slow enough processing fights on a forum without wrangling two teams.

Not saying it couldn't be done though.

It's been tried before, on another forum, and rather conclusively cratered. Very few FEF players are actually interested in doing PVP, and even if they are, you have to have people willing and able to run two simultaneous games of a very intensive genre consistently, and two sets of players willing and able to play consistently. It's a huge ask.

What was it called?

[Iris]

Is there a flipside that could be taken to an extreme? Of course.

But in actual practice, I just feel like there's a lot of pointing and yelling CRING! (See Above Post.)

You seem to be under the impression that people are targeting you for some special reason. As far as I can tell, that is just... simply not the case.

With the amount of autonomy that Toady grants us, it is expected - almost required - for GMs to regulate their own threads. This includes, yes, excluding problem players. However, provided that both sides are being reasonable, this should never happen.

If I ban you from one of my games (speaking as a hypothetical you here), it's not because I don't like you, it's because you're being such a dick that it would the best course of action to preserve the fun of others.

Play games. Don't start fights. We're all here to have fun.

[TamerVirus]

Hell, the forum almost went a whole year without anyone getting banned.
That is, until, someone didn't react well to being 'excluded' from a forum game.

I don't know where I'm going with this line of thought

[IamanElfCollaborator]

Hell, the forum almost went a whole year without anyone getting banned.
That is, until, someone didn't react well to being 'excluded' from a forum game.

I don't know where I'm going with this line of thought

This actually proves the strength of the system. Most of the bans aren't even on FGRP, they're over on GD over the political threads.

It takes being egregiously terrible, to other players, constantly, to actually get people to exclude you from roleplays collectively; generally people will either let it slide if you're chill or if enough time has passed and you aren't so terrible, and especially if you show the desire to at least learn how not to be terrible to your fellow man.

[Man of Paper]

Well I think it’s safe to say that there is no actual issue, people who enjoy certain types of games will likely play together and develop friendships, and the system as we have it now isn’t broken.

Of course, roseheart could finally elaborate and prove me wrong. But I doubt it. If the only instance people brought up to support the “people being refused entry into games” is someone who was toxic enough that they got banned for the way they responded then we definitely don’t have the problem this dude is trying to paint.