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Author Topic: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)  (Read 415790 times)

IronyOwl

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3000 on: February 17, 2017, 11:41:36 am »

Give it a try. Think of it as a game eternally in alpha development hell.
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Tyrant Leviathan

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3001 on: February 17, 2017, 11:48:36 am »

Yeah I am learning to curb the stats and just to with it sometimes. I mean yeah stats are there to a extent, but not al there. As in my Pangaea world games in development it is one of two things. 4 stat system or 7. Inter mingling with both. ( Strategy game and on here would be played as suggestion game. Four in total. Different games, take place on same planet. Just different times.)

Draignean

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3002 on: February 17, 2017, 01:12:44 pm »

What's the problem?

Ah, so, allow me to elaborate with examples. (If you were actually trapped in a room with me, a whiteboard, and a projector, you'd really regret this.*)

I love designing mechanics, the more complex and obscure the better. As an example, the pinnacle of systems that convinced me that I needed to limit myself. At the time everything seemed rather simple, it was a straightforward calculation that I could do in my head in less than a minute, but it adds up. It's an integration to calculate the damage, another pair of rolls to calculate the exact cost of the ability (which can explode into a self-debuff roll if the cost exceeds reserves or is botched), a quick accuracy check, followed by a run through of the target's shields (inc. Hard damage absorptions, soft absorption, any armor piercing/shredding specials), armor (inc. everything used in shields + more), and misc. defensive abilities, followed by updating the variable statics (health,stamina,energy,armor,position,buffs,debuffs, etc) for all involved.

It's the kind of thing that works well in a programmed loop, but tends to wear down the human psyche rapidly and frustrate players  when the DM keeps forgetting things. No part of the above is particularly weird, it's just really detailed. I still LIKE that system, I think it's a system that allows you to play a lot with the nitty-gritty of what separates individual methods of dealing and preventing damage and I have fond memories of the times when I was well rested enough to force it into functionality by sheer willpower and enthusiasm. If you'd like to see a DM flame-out from a mixture of life and trying to drag along a bad system, you should read my D-22 game. It's 50% game and 50% cringe worthy life issues on my part. It's rather an embarrassing pair of stone legs to leave in the sand, but it's mine.



On a slightly less personally depressing note, let's consider the sort of zombie-ish game that my opioid addled brain thought was a great idea. Right off the bat from my earlier descriptions we have a couple decent hooks for mechanics. We have genemods, and the implication that they're controlled uses of this Saigai (Bad romaji* for Calamity) strain which apparently fucks animals up horribly. Players should be allowed to have some fun with this, so there are a couple of options...

1. [Totally Anal] We provide a list of available slots and an exhaustive list of available mods.
2. [Mostly Anal] We provide a list of available slots and example genemods, then let the players write their own subject to individual approval.
3. [Probably Normal] We provide a list of available slots and ask the players for a character idea (not a description) and a list of animals. We then derive some genemods semi-randomly and check to see if the players want to re-roll that.
4. [Laid back] We let the player completely describe their characters and then make shit up in order to fit the description.
5. [Feckin' Australian M8] We let the players write their own genemods, pop a beer, and just go with it.

Now, as with most things, totally anal is not often a good option. Exhaustive lists, I've learned, are bloody exhausting. Typically ending up with several hundred entries that no one really cares to read, but will still frustrate them when they can't find what they want, or find that you've left out pangolin type genemods.

Personally I'm caught between normal and mostly anal. Mostly anal let's me ensure that people have their own say in what they get, but also keeps me in control of what actually goes through. Mostly anal forces me to adapt a bit more and make a lot of rule judgments on the fly, but that's good for expanding the system. Probably normal takes away a bit of fine control from the players in exchange for screwing about with broader concepts and reducing mechanical frustrations between GM and player.

The latter two options shift control to the players, leaving it up to the GM to ensure that the characters are still mechanically viable while allowing them to do whatever the hell they please with their abilities. This is harder than it looks.

Regardless of the above, we still need the underlying structure to support the game. I like structures that are unique and fun to play with, and playing as infected monstrosities is a good first step. So, since I've been on a DSIII kick, and it was hinted at the intro, let's make it hard as fuck to actually die. Not hard to get injured, not hard to get broken and mangled, just hard to die.

So, how about a health system where your max health represents a chance to actually kill you instead of a hard limit. Let's say you have 30 health. Here that would mean that if you've taken 30 damage an opponent can go in for a killing blow, which would have (completely arbitrary dice number) a 1 in 6 chance of killing you. If the d6 comes up 1, you die. If it comes up anything else, you gain back 30 health and the fight continues.

What's fun about this is that we can also introduce a system of status effects that are also based on damage. So, same idea as the kill. All status effects have a certain damage threshold that they need to gain one chance to inflict that effect. You can stack as many chances as you want (up to 6 in the case of the d6) to get a higher percentage chance to inflict the debuff. Whether or not the debuff succeeds, the target gets however much damage you gambled back as health. Let's say we have a status effect of Bleed. Bleed I requires 2 points of damage to get a chance to proc. So, if an opponent is down 30 HP, you can either gamble a 16% chance for an instant kill (with an 84% chance to give a full heal instead), or  give them back 12 HP for 100% chance to inflict bleed. (which might only do 1d4 damage per turn, but that shit adds up.)

On the surface, which is all I really have, I like it. After a couple of combat encounters where players get limbs removed, bones shattered, and repeatedly set on fire, it should really set the mood of constant and inevitable decay (perhaps I drunk a little deeper from the dark souls cup than I intended) where death seems preferable to the mountain of debuffs piling up. However, that does bring up the interesting point of the Labs. These were mentioned earlier, and it would be fun to see players just get the hopelessly damaged sections of their body replaced. You did well on that mission? Great, let's replace that shattered arm of yours with a cybernetic monstrosity that's been infected by saigai contaminated insects and shoots fucking plasma wasps! You brought as back a tin can and a moaning head? Well, we know you got your legs chewed off by a mutant chinchilla, so we krazy glued you to a wheelchair. Go out and gather more samples if you want some real legs!

So, now that we've got that idea in place, let's look at genemods again.

We can do four main slots of legs,arms, torso, head. Or we can increase that to six by doing left and right arms independently. Either way, I think we should separate it into minor/major and malicious mods. Minor and major mods go in the normal slots, but malicious mods simply accrete without an easy means of removal. (No cutting an arm off to get rid of a bad one!)  Malicious mods should be added under certain circumstances, such as when the player is killed (as a rez cost), or perhaps even during certain operations to change out damaged limbs (tissue rejection).

So, let's say that we give the players two minor genemods, one major, and one malicious. For a sort of Corvian build, we might go with...

Torso: Stunted Wings  //Limited Flight
Left Leg: Raking Talons //Extra melee with bonus damage based on fall distance
Head: Murder Call // Can scream to call in/disgorge multiple small ravens to damage and distract targets.

Malicious: Brittle Bones //All malicious effects directed at limbs are treated as having one more chance than usual.

Now, a few things become apparent. Putting slots into your torso and head likely means you don't intend to be switching those out any time soon. We also need some kind of numbered stat system that determines health/melee damage/ranged accuracy/etc. After playing Endless Legend with Dwarmin, I'm a bit fond of how they handle dice rolls, so let's run something like this...

Each stat has a rating from 0 to V. The actual effect of those is described on the stat, but will usually amount to an extra die rolled. Probably give players 5 points to spend at start.

Strength: Adds 1d6 to melee checks
Vitality: Adds 6 to total health
Dexterity: Adds 1d6 to ranged checks
Agility: Adds 1d6 to evasion checks
Tenacity:  Adds 1d6 on luck checks

Rolls all get a base of 1d20. The D20 does not explode. The D6s all do.


And... This is going much longer than I expected. You can sort of see the problem.

Give it a try. Think of it as a game eternally in alpha development hell.

This is genius. Absolute genius as a theme for a game. The terribly thought out stat and damage systems are the DM's mistakes, they're bloody features.


Anywho, I've got to go. Who knows, maybe I'll come back with a more complete system.


*Side note: Bad Romaji would be a good Gaga parody
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Tyrant Leviathan

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3003 on: February 17, 2017, 04:23:55 pm »

Got done with bare bones of starting one of the Pangaea games. Working on others and the info pages.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)


The rest of Pangaea stuff.


Heir to the Throne ( In this you complete with siblings and troubles to become next ruler of a Empire. When and if you get it must then manage it for 100 years until you win or fail. Fail can have fun stuff.)
Islanders  ( boats!!!!)
Exiles ( traveling as you're a people looking for new home. Detail here is akin to Gnoll Cheiftess as managing people is very close and no tribe creation. Here you pick from 15 tribes I have made of humans. Just one at a time.)
Tribe ( Basic one. Most basic.)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 11:43:53 pm by Tyrant Leviathan »
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Draignean

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3004 on: February 23, 2017, 06:04:01 pm »

Yes, I came back with a more complete system. No, it's not the same one.

Anyone interested in helping me with some playtesting?



Wind scoured the Cathedral, whipping across pitted gargoyles and through broken stained glass windows. Once they had been glorious with light, each one depicting a holy Saint and the pictographic tales of their miracles. People had kneeled in the light of those windows to ask boons to small to require the direct supplication of Almighty God. 

Now panes were missing from the lead frames, and the glass that remained was cracked and stained. Much damage had been from the rocks hurled by the peasantry as the world went mad, but many cracks and smaller fissures had been from undying birds. Pitiful creatures. They weren't the hazard they once were. Most had been completely maddened by the pain, and they no longer tried to claim the poisoned sky.

One such creature half walked, half flapped along the Cathedral's stone floor. The men and women assembled in the church paid it no mind. Once the presence of such a wretched thing, a crow with its wings snapped and its ribs protruding from its flesh, flopping about would have merited a cleansing of the church and the ritual burning of the nearest available witch. Now the assembled reacted no more than they would have to a roach in a slum. A slight twitch of disgust here and there, but such creatures were hardly the worst they had seen.

Ashwraiths twisted madly about the pews of the Cathedral interior, sometimes briefly taking humanoid forms. They could form in still places like this, where the wind would not shred them to tatters. Dozens of the swirling figures surged around the altar of Almight God, briefly assuming forms of desperate prayer before breaking apart again. Poor, lost souls from the first days of the Season Unending, from when it was still believed that fire could grant death even when beheading had failed.

"I can not pretend to lay blessing upon you, nor give succor to your wounds. There is little power left in this place, and I have no blessings left for thee."

The speaker was ancient, a wizened priest who stooped under the weight of his robe and remained upright only through the use of his staff. Before, he had complained frequently about the pain in his joints and how the chill in the stones would cut right through him. Now those pains never receded and never healed. Many of the old had gone mad with similar mounting agonies. Yet, somehow, he persisted. His milky eyes surveyed the assembled, their gaze firm despite the pain behind them.

"I see my brethren among you, and I see those that last season I would have called my greatest enemy. Yet little of that matters now. Whether you once wielded the sacred light or conjured Witchfire, set all quarrels aside. There is no house, country, or royalty left worth butchering one another for."

The assembled barely shifted. Holy Knights of the Cathedral, soldiers from the army, surviving peasants, witches of all seven covens, assassins from the south, warmages from far Genai... The assembled were of many lands, and they were of none. Once there would have been blood shed at such a mixing, but now immortality made battle a tired and horrifying prospect.

 "You have been called here one the promise of hope. Hope that we can break the Season Unending. Hope that we can one day again heal our broken flesh, hope that at least we can one day be allowed to die."

A few faces lifted as the old priest continued. Hope was a faint and tired thing, and it showed on very few faces among the assembled. Most had been driven here by curiosity, curiosity as to what would drive an old enemy to call them for aid, curiosity to see what new madness was unfolding. The Season Unending seemed to be the end of the world, and many had begun to accept that terribly fact. There would be no last battle, no clash between the demons spawned by burning heart of chaos at the center of the world and the legions of Almighty God. Just a slow grind until there was nothing left but dust that longed for a mouth so it could scream.

  "The Tale of how Almighty God assumed his Throne is a fable we teach to children, but there is some truth to it. I do not know who or what the Usurper was, or even if he existed, but I know the Throne exists. I know the Throne existed before Almighty God."

Some of the onlookers began to shift. For those who had once devoted themselves to Almighty God, what the priest said was heresy. For those who did not believe, it seemed irrelevant. Yet neither had anything better to do than listen. Though they hungered, they could not satisfy it. Though they were weary, sleep only restored the fatigue of the mind- not the body. The world was over. Heresy was to be expected, and a speech about children's church tales was at least different enough to entertain for a few moments.

  "I have no blessings left, as I said, but I have one Curse that may yet serve us."

The priest motioned, and an acolyte stepped out of the shadows with a long parcel wrapped in grey silk. She unwrapped it, revealing a long spear wrought entirely from some pale stone. Several of the Church's enemies flinched back from the weapon.

"This is the Spear of Judgement, wrought by God and given to man so that he might have a weapon against the demons, and so that man could render the most wicked to HIM so that they may pay for their transgressions. With this weapon, you can be judged before Almighty God. With this weapon, you can die."

Sparks of life flickered into the eyes of the onlookers, seeming to animate them for the first time. A path to death, a path to set down the pain of months of scrapes, bruises, and cuts that would never heal. A path to the blessed sleep.

"Old friends and strangers alike, I ask you to die. No prayer has been answered by Emissary or Angel, and I do not know what awaits you in heaven. Yet I ask you this, do not let yourself be judged, and do not let yourself rest on the other side. Fight your way to Almighty God and kill him. Usurp the throne and become HIM. I care not how you use his powers as long as you break the Season Unending."

A tremble went through the assembled, and five stepped forward immediately. Five souls, and you among them.



Spoiler: Character Sheet (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Combat Rules (click to show/hide)
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3005 on: February 23, 2017, 06:21:56 pm »

Interested enough.

What about ranged weapons such as crossbows? Does the cool-down count for reloading?
How does range work? Do you have an advantage, if you have a pike and they have a dagger?
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Draignean

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3006 on: February 23, 2017, 06:50:42 pm »

Interested enough.

What about ranged weapons such as crossbows? Does the cool-down count for reloading?
How does range work? Do you have an advantage, if you have a pike and they have a dagger?

Moves count for one combat frame. One move, one tile. Range... Blah. I'm still considering on that one. Likely it'll just be a straight number on the weapon that determines a max range. For the crossbow, the P:3 indicates it takes three frames to prime and 1 frame to fire. It only has a frame count for heavy attacks because it can only make heavy attacks, same as the grenade. A short bow, similarly, might only have a value for light attacks.

I'd sort of have hoped to avoid gridmaps in order to avoid becoming the bastard child of Elantris, Dark Souls, AND FEF, but it probably can't be helped if I'm going combat focused.

As for advantage, that's factored into the weapon abilities for the most part, hence the defender trait. Though I might throw in some sort of weapon supremacy system and just embrace the FEF.
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OceanSoul

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3007 on: February 23, 2017, 07:25:44 pm »

Maybe you should consider a triagonal or hexagonal grid?
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Work on a potential forum game for my return to Bay12. Figure out parts that puzzled me before. Find more things to figure out that I can't. Work on another game instead of solving them. Get distracted and stop working. Remember it a week or two later. Remember I'm still on hiatus. Illogically, Be too ashamed to return yet. Repeat ad nauseam.

Finally have a game completely ready. Wait a week before posting it out of laziness.

Draignean

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3008 on: February 23, 2017, 07:43:10 pm »

Maybe you should consider a triagonal or hexagonal grid?

... Why?

Not saying it's a bad idea, just wondering as to why you're suggesting it.
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OceanSoul

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3009 on: February 23, 2017, 07:49:22 pm »

Not entirely sure why I thought of that. It would be different, at least. In hindsight, though, triangular probably wouldn't be good. Only big downside to either is complexity.
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Work on a potential forum game for my return to Bay12. Figure out parts that puzzled me before. Find more things to figure out that I can't. Work on another game instead of solving them. Get distracted and stop working. Remember it a week or two later. Remember I'm still on hiatus. Illogically, Be too ashamed to return yet. Repeat ad nauseam.

Finally have a game completely ready. Wait a week before posting it out of laziness.

hachnslay

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3010 on: March 03, 2017, 12:02:11 pm »

On my "You are the Gamer" Game:

So, i went entirely too meta and lost most players even before they could change the display options -
I even have most of the Backstory done -
Wizard uses spells to create timeloops whenever he dies, bringing him back to the start of the game, retaining his Skills but not his memories or levels.
Mind magic links his mind to the Voices of the twelve bays (that is you!)
Names Have Power...

was planning to use something from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_by_type
as the hardmode enemy list.

question is - should i try to restart without adaptable display options or let it die?
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Tyrant Leviathan

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3011 on: March 03, 2017, 12:05:58 pm »

Well I myself just working on the other Pangaea titles right now. Making each one different. Despite a slow build up of players. I love that some exist to build up the game.

RoseHeart

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3012 on: March 06, 2017, 03:46:41 pm »

@Transcendant

A good analogy for this advice I'm giving you though would be The Legend of Zelda. Imagine booting up Zelda and from the moment you turn it on you see every single map and every single dungeon all at once and your character is just an infinitesimally small pixel. That wouldn't be fun would it? But why... they have all the information, anything else is just taking things away from the player right? What's wrong with that? Sometimes limitation is good.
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Tyrant Leviathan

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3013 on: March 06, 2017, 06:02:29 pm »

Exiles: Its more Oregon Trail than cub maker as you have been reduced to being nomads on the run trying to find a new home. Only character creation there is selecting your tribe, then who you are in it.

From there its having your people look for good and shelter to find a place to belong.

The other is the Emperor Throne. Super simple stat system. More harem options and less detail to building. Your job is to impress your dad at ruling a province ( which you pick.) And if get Throne ruling it until death.

ATHATH

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Re: Gaming Block (Game Discussion Thread) (Totally Not Roller's Block)
« Reply #3014 on: March 07, 2017, 12:33:13 am »

Would any of you guys be interested in participating in Darkness Redeemed: Necromechanic 3 if Shadestyle started it here, or should he look for another forum?
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