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[Itsdavyjones]

I know that there have been multiple postings related to boats, but I have thought of ideas that would work for boats.
Boats can only be bullt out of wood or metal, with wooden boats easier to build then metal ones, because wooden boats are built using planks (5 planks per log) where as metal boats are built using hull sections which in made with one bar.  Wooden boats are smaller then metal boats because metal is stronger then wood in large structures.  The strength of metal comes at a price though, it weighs more and therefor has more water displaced because of that.  The displacement of the boat goes like this: 
 # is the depth of the water, _ | is the hull . Is the surface.
                 ..|___|..                ..|___|..
                 7333337.               7|___|7

In the first example, the ship has a displacement of 4/7 and the second example the ship has 7/7 displacement and ran aground. The ship looks like the first example for displacement of 1/7 to 6/7.
The ship also increases or decreases displacement depending on weight of cargo.

Ships also leak and will need either buckets or bilge to get rid of the water.
Boats are built in a carpenters workshop if it a canoe, but on slipways or dry docks for larger ships.
slipways require wood supports to slide down when finished.
Dry docks use more materials to get setup but can test ships before sending them out, but need a pump to remove the water, and a special floodgate that restricts the flow of water into the dry dock.

When ships are being built, they get built by shipbuilders, and the amount of leaking is related to the skill of the builder. The keel is built with double the number of planks or plates for extra strength and the hull with the normal amount. Portholes can be built too.

Ships are propelled by either the wind, oars, or paddle wheels. 

With the wind, all that is needed is a sail, but is then dependent on the wind strength, oars are used by dwarfs for smaller ships, and paddle wheels are powered by dwarfs, animals or by windmills.
It would be possible for ships that use paddle wheels to be powered by windmills and dwarfs or animals.
But food would be needed for animal power.  However, once built and launched, there are four options for the ship;
A) use for trade, which would then have a crew on board (must be assigned) and trade goods.
B) use for local use, which could be used for defense, fishing or transport accross a river.
C) use as colony ship [stay at fortress] you then select a crew and provide food and supplies, and then the ship leaves to start a new fortress around the world or just stay at sea.
D) use as colony ship [stay with ship] you then select a crew and stay with the ship and leave the fortress with the crew
The max crew size is 50% of your fortress population currently.

Ships that are large anough can have fisheries and small farm plots, and have siege engins on board.

Ships cannot go over waterfalls, and need to use a lock to get around it, but the canoe can just be carried around the falls.  Lock diagram: [] flood gate [.] dry dock flood gate ~ water |_ boat # wall

   []~|___|~[]~~~~~
   []~~~~~~#
~[]~~~~~~[.] two, on for inflow and one for outflow

A leaver to operate the gates are onshore and placed in a manner that is easy to tell lower lever fg on left, drain ddfg left middle, fill ddfg middle right, and upper fg right.

Any dwarf at sea can get sea sick if there are waves, on lakes and oceans.

Any canoe found by an adventurer can be used.

I also apologize for the length of this post.

[Revanchist]

Are you suggesting shark drawn boats? Deal me in!
Good idea, on a different note. Not sure if the leaving with  the boat is possible at the moment though... Toady should have an answer somewhere... probably on the dev cards.

[Itsdavyjones]

A few more ideas I got is that wooden objects tend to float in general, and that some workshops can have a 1x1 equivalent, those workshops being still and fishery. And the screw pump has a mini version that can be used to get fresh water to drink, sort of like a hand powered fountain.

[GreatWyrmGold]

The idea of a desalinating workshop is understandable from a gameplay standpoint, but how would it make sense from a realism standpoint.
Sorta the opposite with the single-tile workshops, come to think of it. Maybe it makes sense to be able to prepare fish on a normal table or whatever, but how would it be worse/different than a normal one to compensate?

[Itsdavyjones]

The idea of a desalinating workshop is understandable from a gameplay standpoint, but how would it make sense from a realism standpoint.
Sorta the opposite with the single-tile workshops, come to think of it. Maybe it makes sense to be able to prepare fish on a normal table or whatever, but how would it be worse/different than a normal one to compensate?

I forgot to say stuff when I made my last post. The mini pump works the same as the screw pump, just a a reduced speed, and the mini workshops have a penalty by being slower then the full sized counter parts. Unless water can be stored in barrels, then the mini pump works when needed to get fresh water on demand, like a public fountain, or it the stores it in a barrel, or a water chamber in larger boats.

[Itsdavyjones]

Another idea is that ships can be ordered from other fortresses/civs, with restrictions (elves) in building materials.

[floundericiousWA]

I love this idea.  It does sound like a lot of coding, though...I wonder if we could simplify the concept?

Is there some way that minecart functionality could be added for crossing bodies of water? 

I'm thinking of rope-guided boats which are used as ferries to cross rivers or large lakes.  Instead of a minetrack, the boat would have to use ropes (and it must be a ROPE as a chain should be too heavy) and you'd build a wooden "ferryboat" in the Carpenter's workshop which would be like a minecart in size/capacity.  It could either be powered by a dwarf or by a power source/gear assembly on each end of the rope.  Bonus points if the boat can be made to dump directly into a minecart on the other end...allowing for the dwarven water-coaster thrill ride!

[Itsdavyjones]

I love this idea.  It does sound like a lot of coding, though...I wonder if we could simplify the concept?

Is there some way that minecart functionality could be added for crossing bodies of water? 

I'm thinking of rope-guided boats which are used as ferries to cross rivers or large lakes.  Instead of a minetrack, the boat would have to use ropes (and it must be a ROPE as a chain should be too heavy) and you'd build a wooden "ferryboat" in the Carpenter's workshop which would be like a minecart in size/capacity.  It could either be powered by a dwarf or by a power source/gear assembly on each end of the rope.  Bonus points if the boat can be made to dump directly into a minecart on the other end...allowing for the dwarven water-coaster thrill ride!

I think that using minecart type boats at first might seem logical, but it would probably carry less due to the load, because minecarts have the ground to support the load, whereas boats have to displace water to stay afloat, so instead of 5 rocks, maybe 2-3 depending on the weight of the rock.

[simonthedwarf]

What if you designated a kind of blueprint for the boats movement, making travel between shores also possible?

[Itsdavyjones]

What if you designated a kind of blueprint for the boats movement, making travel between shores also possible?

What could be done is have the boat pulled by ropes or have a dwarf paddle it to the destination.  So if it is pulled by rope it goes from A-B-C whereas a dwarf can go straight to C from A (B being a pivot point for the rope.

[JohnieRWilkins]

Mandatory reading material:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg2015547#msg2015547

Quote from: Toady

Quote from: Me

Do you see humans as the seafaring race? Will waterways and trade by ship play a central role to civilizations? Which races will participate in sailing and building ships? How large, in units of men and/or dwarfcube dimensions*, will the larger boats be in the future?

Footkerchief posted quite a bit on this one.  I just wanted to add that, yeah, some humans should be seafarers to different degrees -- probably all of the civs on the coast, but not the civs that have no settlements on the water.  The same goes for other races on the water or large rivers.  Dwarves and kobolds are sort of the odd ones out here.  I have trouble imagining seafaring dwarves, especially out on the open ocean, but there are large bodies of water underground and lakes up in the mountains, so it's hard to say what we'll end up with once all the mechanics are just sitting there waiting to be used.

If you click through Footker's post you get here:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=35263.msg556854#msg556854

Read toady's replies in that thread.

e: Mermaid drawn ships*

[Bytyan]

Metal ships are certainly not historically accurate, but they are very dwarfy. Maybe dwarves should be limited to slow, poderous, nigh unsinkable metal ships (in addition to rafts), and other races have only quick wooden ones.  Either way, dwarves tendency toward traditional combat wouldn't make full use of their unburnable ships, and captured or purchased dwarven vessels could turn the tide in battles between races that would take advantage of that. Dwarves should be sub-par sailors due to their build, and extremely vulnerable to the forces of the sea. Sailing should be a skill that keeps them from falling off the boat or vomiting all over your flagship while they should be firing their crossbows at approaching zombie whales. All in all, I think that the sea should be a place humans shine, and dwarves flounder, simply because of the difference in production philosophies. Dwarven design is better suited to things that rest their weight on the ground, rather than thin whiskey.

[Itsdavyjones]

JhonieRWilkens. I did read that just now, and what toady said I see a solution to that.  The problem of boats is the heading the go, but what I just saw is that (and it is hard to get down from my thoughts) ships could appear broken like having the walls offset if heading on a 45 degree heading, but the movement on the boat is the same as it would normally be, will find a way to get a image of my idea down soon

Edit, seems like someone else has the same idea in general after reading one more page.

[jimi12]

I don't see boats being addressed before mounts are added. There would be a lot of similiarities between riders and mariners in terms of how things would be coded. Mounts are scheduled for Release 7, but I'm not sure how accurate the release schedule is now.

[JohnieRWilkins]

I don't see boats being addressed before mounts are added. There would be a lot of similiarities between riders and mariners in terms of how things would be coded. Mounts are scheduled for Release 7, but I'm not sure how accurate the release schedule is now.

Certainly. We need move/combat speed split, moving fortress sections, mounts and better sieges before we see ships as a dev item.