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1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[Sonlirain]

So MAXes are at the same price as ESFs and Lightenings? What's the point of using a MAX then unless its a hour long slog in biolabs?

[Duuvian]

In addition to owning all buildings everywhere they are a smaller target with comparable AV potential, but you can't drive away at 60 kph or whatnot.

You must have tried to shoot AV maxes as a tank in the past before. It's only barely easier than normal infantry to direct hit them, and they don't die in one shot plus often have the charge ability to escape after the first shot.

You can also switch from AV to AI to AA load outs unlike tanks.

[DJ]

Sundies shouldn't be that cheap, makes it kinda pointless to try and take out enemy spawns.

[Sonlirain]

In addition to owning all buildings everywhere they are a smaller target with comparable AV potential, but you can't drive away at 60 kph or whatnot.

You must have tried to shoot AV maxes as a tank in the past before. It's only barely easier than normal infantry to direct hit them, and they don't die in one shot plus often have the charge ability to escape after the first shot.

You an also switch from AV to AI to AA load outs unlike tanks.

TBH i rarely drive tanks because TR gets the Prowler. I spent some certs on it by buying some extra utilities. I even got the Marauder as a secondary but after the nerf noone would even bother trying to gun in it so i kinda stopped using it at all.

Personally i saw maxes as a sort of super infantry you pull at times when your vehicle resources are low. With this change you are just better off pulling a specialized vehicle when on the field or conquesring smaller outposts. Sure a max is kinda harder to hit than another tank but at the same time it can't really retreat unless there are buildings nearby... and if you are fighting in a large building complex in a tank you should shell it from far away where MAX weapons are not eccurate enough to constantly hit and threaten you.

[Duuvian]

Well, if they were better at doing what tanks do and better than infantry at what they do you wouldn't see many tanks and more sunderers packed with maxes and engineers with one medic. I'd argue that av max weapons are not terribly inaccurate at range, NC max has a guided launcher, VS max has an insanely fast traveling weapon that doesn't require as much leading. Maybe TR's is inaccurate, I haven't used it. I do have dual falcons but I haven't pulled a max in a long long time. I recall using them at long range against non moving targets. It wasn't lack of accuracy, it was lack of projectile speed at long ranges that made falcons hard to use against moving targets.

Sundies shouldn't be that cheap, makes it kinda pointless to try and take out enemy spawns.

It could be good. There are lots of fizzled 50/50 base stalemates due to exploded sundies when instead we could have been exploring Certlandia. I think the main downside is it will take out a way for the smaller side of a 60/40 force to drive off attackers by exploding their sundies. It would be nice if in 48+ 48+ fights with one side having 60%+ population if the outpopulated side could call an orbital strike(s) that disabled AMS sundies. It would add a new dimension to 'tactics' where instead of calling on /orders to stack your whole continent of players on whatever base your side is attacking or defending until you reach the magic 60%ish population percentages required to ensure victory you'd have strong encouragement to be careful not to go above that or get your AMS out of commission for five minutes or attrition drops your population down to 55%.

In addition sundies are almost mandatory for assaults. Since all the resources are combined and SOMEONE will have to pull sundies, it might be unfair to ask them to sacrifice 450 from their pool of infantry toy goodness.

[Skyrunner]

I feel that sundies blow up too easily in small fights. I've often ended a fight straight in its tracks as an engi running up to a sundi, throwing a sticky and tank mines, then running away...

[darkrider2]

TBH I rarely drive tanks because TR gets the Prowler.

Being NC, I feel bad for TR. After many rounds of nerfs it seems TR has slowly been demoted to worst faction. I'll just cover their tank for now.

I stated long ago my belief that the two-shot main cannon is a disadvantage to their tank (for various reasons), but anchor used to be fucking devastating, and the original three continents were so open that it could be abused at range. The prowler was scary back then, and (on mattherson) TR were the most skilled at using their tanks. Anchor has been nerfed, TR's ES secondaries have been nerfed into oblivion, continents have been reworked with a focus on infantry combat, and hossin is 100% close range for tanks.

The current state of tanks on Emerald is:

Vanu - farmriders (PPA) everywhere, beware when vanu capture a base because they will pull a locust swarm of farmriders out of it and go to the next base, rince and repeat. Tank on Tank combat achieved by the sheer number of farmriders. Saron has fallen out of use due to nerfs, PPA remains as powerful as ever and the only ES AI secondary to be so stupidly strong at its role. Hossin gives the magrider a boost by forcing every tank it encounters into close quarters so their shell arc and shell velocity don't weigh down its performance as much.

NC - still the gods of tank on tank combat, enforcer + titan AP on every tank, decent players regularly having bruce willis moments taking down multiple farmriders. Canister still a joke, but has gone from completely useless to mildly humorous with the recent buff. Shield health nerfed but still remains a gigantic "fuck you I pressed F" item. After both other factions AT ES secondaries were nerfed the enforcer is now the only ES anti-tank secondary that is actually powerful, compounded with the shield keeping the vanguard at god-of-tanks status.

TR - Anchor nerfed because it was too good at shooting planes and farming doorways (dumbest nerf ever), prowler ES secondaries were so screwed by nerfs that the most common thing I see on top of prowlers now is the fucking halberd. prowler made even less useful by the lower number of prowlers in any given fight compared to the other factions (justifiably, I wouldn't play it either). The continent changes have not favored the prowler.


TL;DR

Tank balance has went from  NC >>> TR > VS  to  NC >>> VS > TR

Reason: due to the insane relevance of secondaries, PPA puts VS in second place, enforcer + shield put NC in first, prowler nerfed nerfed nerfed.


*disclaimer* please keep in mind this entire post is in my point of view, your mileage may vary. If I seem biased against vanu its because I am, I spent the entire crabpocalypse period fighting them and to make it worse I did so on mattherson, I'm still hung up about it.

[Sonlirain]

snip

Personally i'd change anchored mode to increase the armor values (when anchored) to Vanguard levels + change the paper thin rear armor into an equivalent of side armor so using that mode in close combat is not a giant glowing sign hanging over my tank that reads "i'm an idiot move around me and blast away at my rear because i willingly immobilized my tank".

[Skyrunner]

Spot on. I only pull Prowlers when I want to quickly kill some pesky Lightnings. I never pull them to kill Vanguards or Magriders, because why bother? They will win nine out of ten.

[palsch]

Main thing I'd disagree with is the odd dislike of the Halberd. I'd currently rank it above the Enforcer as an AV secondary in skilled hands. It has lower DPS, but the alpha damage is important as well, as getting a fraction of a second line of sight on a slightly damaged vehicle can secure the kill. It is also a satisfying AI weapon (recently had three kills from three shots while gunning for a BR100, felt absolutely pro) and often more effective than the Enforcer in that role unless just farming a tower from range. Again, alpha damage (one-shot kill) is more important than sustained DPS for dropping infantry.

Only reason I still run the Enforcer on my own AV Vanguards is the lower skill floor and the fact that I own it and not the Halberd. It also makes it easier to spot where your gunner is firing which is nice when you have no other way to communicate targets.



I want to wait and see on the resource revamp, especially if they are shifting the continent lock rewards at the same time. Currently if you have the 50% infantry discount you can spam MAXes all day long.

I do often take a MAX over a tank, provided I can get a ride. The flexibility of going AV or AI is better than being stuck in a single-purpose Lightning while Vanguards are often unavailable and I tend to feel worse pulling one just to abandon it at the next base (resulting in my sitting around being useless a lot of the time).

[Ozyton]

It'd be nice if you could deconstruct your vehicle near a vehicle pad and get some of its resourced back, or at least be able to swap its gun out somewhere.

[Toaster]

It'd be nice if you could deconstruct your vehicle near a vehicle pad and get some of its resourced back, or at least be able to swap its gun out somewhere.

Yes, but if they were going to do that, it'd have been done long ago.



At first glance, 120 seems high for a flash, but if you consider that as a "must average two minutes alive in it, including time respawning and running to get it" it's really not that bad.

240 for a Sundy, though, is absurdly low.  Prepare to see battle sundies everywhere.

The MAX price might be a bit high, but it's a tough call; right now, players who are good with it won't have a problem with it, but crappy players will get shut out a lot.  The fact that it can be revived by a medic should come into consideration.

[NullForceOmega]

I think the 420 is a little high for the MAX, I'd rather see it at 300-360.
On a related but different note, it kind of bothers me when platoon/squad medics completely ignore a downed MAX and focus exclusively on their team.  Even if the MAX isn't part of your unit, ressing them only helps you in the long run, if nothing else they help draw fire away from your teammates.  And every MAX pulled in a battle is a force multiplier, even an almost useless baby MAX can soak some decent damage and has a solid chance of dealing assists.

[Ozyton]

I'd almost like to see a different kind of medical gun altogether, one that has a longer healing distance but has longer revive times, perhaps. Or something that adds more resistance to people you're actively healing, sort of like the equivalent of an engineer repairing a MAX from around a corner. I've tried this with the normal medic gun but it doesn't heal fast enough for it to make a difference.

[Knight of Fools]

Heck, just add two new types of medic guns. One with twice the range and half the revive time/healing rate at max level, and another that adds 50% damage resistance and half revive time/healing rate at max level. It would add a lot of needed variety to the medic class. Right now they're mostly good for spamming self heal in a direct firefight, reviving someone that died in a safe area, or spamming revive grenades in towers and biolabs.