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1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[Jim Groovester]

After the optimization patch goes live there will be a series of balance patches. Some of the changes are discussed here.

Everybody hates Harrassers, so those are getting nerfed. Here's what caught my eye:

Proximity Radar Change

• Proximity Radar is being moved to the defense slot
  
  • Proximity Radar is intended to be the defensive warning against approaching infantry with C-4, but it’s become obvious that the other options are vastly preferred in the Utility slot.
  • We feel that moving it to the Defense slot makes more sense for the cert line and that this move gives players clearer defensive options to choose from.

Yessssssssssssss. Now I can equip Lockdown and Proximity Radar at the same time. Instead of getting blown up by a LA I didn't see, I can get blown up by a LA I should've seen.

This also means AMS sundies will be able to use Radar as well, which should make them easier to defend.

[TolyK]

INVISIBLE RADAR FLASH WHOOO

[DJ]

So what's the Harasser nerf going to be? IMO the main problem is that you just can't hit them with anything, lock on missiles included. So the logical thing to do would be cutting their speed by a good deal. Though backseat repairing is total BS too, and it definitely needs to go.

[TolyK]

Backseat repairing is fine if you keep shooting them from the back.
Basically, either making them more fragile (even at higher ranks) or slower would work. But I'd prefer to make them more fragile, i.e. dead from two-and-a-half normal rockets (maybe 3 of any lock-on),

[Jim Groovester]

So what's the Harasser nerf going to be? IMO the main problem is that you just can't hit them with anything, lock on missiles included. So the logical thing to do would be cutting their speed by a good deal. Though backseat repairing is total BS too, and it definitely needs to go.

It looks like they're nerfing composite armor to some extent, and also tweaking Harasser weapons so that the effective range is shorter. MBT and other secondaries look like they will be unaffected. There are other fixes mentioned, like a balance pass at all vehicle weapons.

They're also making C4 and tank mines do more damage to Harassers, because, you know, the damage was the primary obstacle to using those as counters.

[DJ]

Yeah, I really don't get that. In the extremely rare circumstances where I could attach C4 on a Harasser it worked just fine. The problem is landing a hit with anything other than small arms, which do virtually no damage so Harassers can drive straight through entire platoons with complete impunity.

[Knight of Fools]

I've heard several anecdotal accounts of harassers tearing apart tanks with impunity. Which is silly - They shouldn't be able to take more than one or two tank shells before becoming uselessly exploded.

[DJ]

IMO a single AP round from an MBT should instantly explode a Harasser, and a Lightning AP should set it on fire.

And yeah, the other day when we were besieging Vanu Archives the VS Harassers were driving straight through our ranks and decimating infantry despite the presence of 3 Vanguards and 2 Lightnings.

[Sonlirain]

My answer to harrasers is... striker.

All theo ther launcher missiles are downright retarded when dealing with fast ground vehicles but the striker... oh boy it will zig zag between trees arc around a rock and hit the scumbag regardless.

From what i hear the annihilator has the same type of tracking so it might do as good.


As for nerfing hte harraser so it gets blown up by a single tank shell... don't you think it's a bit too much?
Up to 3 kills for one shell?

[DJ]

If you actually hit a harasser with an MBT, you deserve it. It has enough time to get on your back and take you out if you miss 2-3 shots. Harasser should IMO be as tough as wet cardboard or a lot slower, because there's no way that being both fast and resilient can ever be balanced.

And yeah, in my experience Crow *never* hits a harasser moving at it's top speed.

[Kanil]

It takes 3 shots from a Halberd or AP round to kill a Harasser (including composite.) It takes the Harasser 4 shots from a Halberd to the rear, 8 to the front, to kill an MBT (not including upgrades -- I don't tank, so I don't know.)

If you and your gunner can't hit a Harasser 3 times with the 8-to-16+ shots you have, and the Harasser hits you every time, you deserve to die.

Except Vulcans, those things are stupid OP.

[DJ]

Because hitting a small vehicle zipping around with turbo is same as hitting a house sized vehicle that moves like a snail. And I suppose AA and AI gunner weapons aren't meant to be used at all.

[Kanil]

And I suppose AA and AI gunner weapons aren't meant to be used at all.

The Harasser has to devote all of it's weapons to AV, not getting a choice for an AA or AI weapon. It seems reasonable that you should be expected to do the same, no?

Two men manning a pure AV Harasser will lose to two men manning a pure AV tank pretty easily.

[Jelle]

IMO a single AP round from an MBT should instantly explode a Harasser, and a Lightning AP should set it on fire.

That's absurd. And that's coming from someone who drives an AP equiped vanguard more then anything. Two shots? Maybe but one shot is ludicrous, it's still a 3 man (read 2 man) combat vehicle, and it's not that hard to hit a harasser especially with the high velocity rounds on an AP cannon.

[Flying Dice]

Two AP/HEAT shells should always be a kill. The range on Harasser weapons should (and looks like it will be) lower, so they can't just zip by and snipe you from retarded range in the rear. Most of all, back-seat repairing should be gone. It's never, ever been a good thing in any game that I can recall. Brings back memories of being a cheap bastard Blackhawk pilot in BF:BC2; two gunners + two people in the crew compartment with repair tools and almost nothing could kill you.

One shot from an AP MBT frankly should either be a kill or light them on fire if they don't have their defense certs maxed. That has always been the tradeoff with this type of vehicle: you get high speed, mobility, and firepower, but damned near anything can kill you.

Actually, I'd be happy with the default being two AP/HEAT shells to kill, if small arms fire was more effective. WHICH IT REALLY SHOULD BE, and for much the same reason that it's now more effective against ESFs.