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1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[TolyK]

They're shit unless you have ZOE and armor.
Basically, standard other-faction MAXes pwn standard VS MAXes, but MAXed-out VS ones are better than the other ones statistically.

[Flying Dice]

They were so good, the forum whined until SOE nerfed 'em.  I hardly use my Duo-Burster MAX now, and I had just bought the extended mags for both when the nerf-hammer fell.

Oh yeah, I'm quite aware. NC MAXes still consistently under perform compared to the other MAXes just because of our poor AI and AV weapons. Whenever I see another MAX, I simply use my charge ability to get the heck out of there. It's no contest. I've pumped entire clips of my extended mag, slug Grinders into ZOE MAXes and still not killed them. It's ridiculous.

Get Aegis shield. The trick is to raise the shield once you're empty and reloading, then lower it once you're ready. You can keep reloading while holding the shield.

NC complaining about their MAXes? HAHAHAHA. Try playing VS MAXes. They're shit for absolutely everything, and they didn't even get their special ability from PS1 to make them slightly less shit.

...

...

No, can't figure it out. Are you trolling or genuinly think vanu maxes are shit?

Well, thanks to fuckups with the client, I haven't been able to play since... June or so. Did they actually get buffed? Because if so it must be snowing in hell, too. Back when I was still with the Vindies we only pulled MAXes for AA, or because we were losing a biodome and needed something to soak up bullets while everyone else did something meaningful.

[Sonlirain]

Well ZOE Maxes were the fucking bane of the game for some time.
They got toned down a bit and now a MAX with ZOE on can get oneshot by a decimator (or was it the annihilator? the one with the big damage anyway).

Are you kidding? Engineers are hands-down the best camping class with the right setup especially in places like biodome tele rooms. Just get the carbine with the UGL, set up your turret to cover your back, drop your ammo box, and pop people with rifle grenades whenever they show their heads. I've gone up to absurd session KDRs doing that, especially when running with an outfit to help block other entry routes. Pretty much any time you find a pitched fight, find a good vantage point and start putting grenades into clusters and around likely corners.

Here's the problem... i bought the gun NV sight and smoke launcher yesterday.
Might get a proper sight and a nade launcher now tho.

[Jim Groovester]

Well, thanks to fuckups with the client, I haven't been able to play since... June or so. Did they actually get buffed? Because if so it must be snowing in hell, too. Back when I was still with the Vindies we only pulled MAXes for AA, or because we were losing a biodome and needed something to soak up bullets while everyone else did something meaningful.

Oh, dude, you don't know about ZOE?

No wonder you think VS MAXes are crap.

ZOE lets you with a press of a button become a rollerskating disco lobster of death. You get an increase in mobility (faster than infantry sprint speed) and a damage boost (that increases with each level of ZOE), but you take more damage than normal.

Taking more damage is actually an excellent tradeoff since you're so much faster and everything dies around you so much faster. Also, the increased mobility means you can run away from any unfavorable situation, and dodge rockets and scoot away from C4 more often than not.

Spoiler: A demonstration (click to show/hide)

[BurnedToast]

They were so good, the forum whined until SOE nerfed 'em.  I hardly use my Duo-Burster MAX now, and I had just bought the extended mags for both when the nerf-hammer fell.

Oh yeah, I'm quite aware. NC MAXes still consistently under perform compared to the other MAXes just because of our poor AI and AV weapons. Whenever I see another MAX, I simply use my charge ability to get the heck out of there. It's no contest. I've pumped entire clips of my extended mag, slug Grinders into ZOE MAXes and still not killed them. It's ridiculous.

Get Aegis shield. The trick is to raise the shield once you're empty and reloading, then lower it once you're ready. You can keep reloading while holding the shield.

NC complaining about their MAXes? HAHAHAHA. Try playing VS MAXes. They're shit for absolutely everything, and they didn't even get their special ability from PS1 to make them slightly less shit.

...

...

No, can't figure it out. Are you trolling or genuinly think vanu maxes are shit?

Well, thanks to fuckups with the client, I haven't been able to play since... June or so. Did they actually get buffed? Because if so it must be snowing in hell, too. Back when I was still with the Vindies we only pulled MAXes for AA, or because we were losing a biodome and needed something to soak up bullets while everyone else did something meaningful.

I see others have enlightened you about the ZoE (the most BS in need of a nerf thing in the game right now imo).

But as for the rest, VS maxes have *ALWAYS* had the best K:D ratio, they have never been bad... VS just likes to whine and it became self-reinforcing.

[Siquo]

VS just likes to whine and it became self-reinforcing.

No need to get like that. Unless you're VS yourself, then you're proving yourself right.

The problem is as said before: Dedicated VS MAXes are great, but the vanilla VS MAX is not impressive at all. That great K:D comes from those dedicated MAX users. ZoE is also very much useless when using the MAX as a tank in large fights (which is one of its main roles). I think MAXes are pretty balanced (except for the fracture), but I won't often pull a MAX because I don't like playing it that much, and therefore only have a vanilla one. The Aegis shield, when used correctly, is fucking scary. ZoE in medium to small fights is scary. Lockdown is not scary unless you're in their arc of fire, then it's only scary for a very short time until you're dead, but TR MAXes have some really scary weapons.

[Flying Dice]

Yeah, that ZOE thing puts in a different light. Re: Earlier VS MAXes, though, they were shit. One of the guys I played with was a MAX specialist, and he had to dump pretty much everything he earned into it just to be effective. Anything that requires you to superspecialize in order to be competitive is shit, even if it's good once you've ground your way all the way to the top. Incidentally, we also ran NC alts on another server, and all it took to be good with them was a scatcannon. Not even a second one, just the default setup alone would let us roll positions easily.

I also played some with the default TR MAX on my other alt, and while it wasn't as EZmode as NC, it was still respectable. VS MAX without a pile of upgrades is a waste of resources, at least pre-ZOE. Sounds like it might actually have shifted more towards a balance now.


On an unrelated note, is the Skyguard Lightning still a hilariously effective anti-infantry weapon? Not necessarily in the "gets tons of kills" sense, but in that anyone you shoot at is going to shit themselves and run for cover.

[Jelle]

No need to get like that. Unless you're VS yourself, then you're proving yourself right.

The problem is as said before: Dedicated VS MAXes are great, but the vanilla VS MAX is not impressive at all. That great K:D comes from those dedicated MAX users. ZoE is also very much useless when using the MAX as a tank in large fights (which is one of its main roles). I think MAXes are pretty balanced (except for the fracture), but I won't often pull a MAX because I don't like playing it that much, and therefore only have a vanilla one. The Aegis shield, when used correctly, is fucking scary. ZoE in medium to small fights is scary. Lockdown is not scary unless you're in their arc of fire, then it's only scary for a very short time until you're dead, but TR MAXes have some really scary weapons.

Out of curiosity, how is the Aegis shield used correctly then? I've been using it for quite some time myself, but I've never really been impressed by it. Mind you it's a good ability, a good alternative to charge, but nowhere near as impressive as the zealout overdrive engine.

Practical strategic uses I think think of off the top of my head are:
-Shielding a fallen ally for a revive.
-Mobile cover while advancing position. The shield breaks fairly quickly under heavy fire and the max moves incredibly slowly however, so you can't advance particularly far.
-Oh and the reloading bit, that's useful although that's mostly covering an incredible weakness of the NC max.

But I'm curious now, what kind of scenario is it so amazing as you claim?

[BurnedToast]

Yeah, that ZOE thing puts in a different light. Re: Earlier VS MAXes, though, they were shit. One of the guys I played with was a MAX specialist, and he had to dump pretty much everything he earned into it just to be effective. Anything that requires you to superspecialize in order to be competitive is shit, even if it's good once you've ground your way all the way to the top. Incidentally, we also ran NC alts on another server, and all it took to be good with them was a scatcannon. Not even a second one, just the default setup alone would let us roll positions easily.

I also played some with the default TR MAX on my other alt, and while it wasn't as EZmode as NC, it was still respectable. VS MAX without a pile of upgrades is a waste of resources, at least pre-ZOE. Sounds like it might actually have shifted more towards a balance now.

VS just likes to whine and it became self-reinforcing.

The problem is as said before: Dedicated VS MAXes are great, but the vanilla VS MAX is not impressive at all. That great K:D comes from those dedicated MAX users. ZoE is also very much useless when using the MAX as a tank in large fights (which is one of its main roles). I think MAXes are pretty balanced (except for the fracture), but I won't often pull a MAX because I don't like playing it that much, and therefore only have a vanilla one. The Aegis shield, when used correctly, is fucking scary. ZoE in medium to small fights is scary. Lockdown is not scary unless you're in their arc of fire, then it's only scary for a very short time until you're dead, but TR MAXes have some really scary weapons.

Vanilla maxes all suck for all empires, and ALL requires a heavy investment and super-specialization to be good. VS and TR default max AI weapon is almost exactly the same, meanwhile pounder is completely worthless and comet is... not good but not as bad as the pounder. Any difference in vanilla max performance was only in your head.

Edit: between TR and VS vanilla max performance. NC scattercannon used to be kind of crazy before they nerfed it and still works differently of course.

The only "problem" vs max ever had was they accidentally swapped the stats for the accurate, long range gun and the short range high damage gun so everyone bought the wrong one but that was fixed a very very long time ago.

As for shield vs lockdown vs ZoE... shield and lockdown are VERY situational, and it's always a gamble taking them over charge. ZoE is always useful in every situation since it can be toggled instantly with no cooldown and the speed boost mostly obsoletes charge. Force a 5s "warmpup" and "shutdown" period on toggling ZoE where they still take extra damage and maybe I won't mind it so much since it will be more situational.

Fakeedit: shield is good for reloading, for running between buildings, for sucking up fire while busting into a room, and for annoying spawn room champions who insist on shooting at you anyway ( ). I think it's not that great, but it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.

[Sonlirain]

On an unrelated note, is the Skyguard Lightning still a hilariously effective anti-infantry weapon? Not necessarily in the "gets tons of kills" sense, but in that anyone you shoot at is going to shit themselves and run for cover.

It's OKish against infantry. Not nearly as good as a HE cannon but it kills infantry just fine.
Its accuracy is crap however so don't expect to be very dangerous on distances longer than 50 meters.
Oh and it can damage ANY unit even MBTs so a skyguard can heavily damage a MBT if it can get rear shots in... of course it's not safe and very situational but i even got a critical assist several minutes ago in a skyguard.

[PrimusRibbus]

No need to get like that. Unless you're VS yourself, then you're proving yourself right.

The problem is as said before: Dedicated VS MAXes are great, but the vanilla VS MAX is not impressive at all. That great K:D comes from those dedicated MAX users. ZoE is also very much useless when using the MAX as a tank in large fights (which is one of its main roles). I think MAXes are pretty balanced (except for the fracture), but I won't often pull a MAX because I don't like playing it that much, and therefore only have a vanilla one. The Aegis shield, when used correctly, is fucking scary. ZoE in medium to small fights is scary. Lockdown is not scary unless you're in their arc of fire, then it's only scary for a very short time until you're dead, but TR MAXes have some really scary weapons.

Out of curiosity, how is the Aegis shield used correctly then? I've been using it for quite some time myself, but I've never really been impressed by it. Mind you it's a good ability, a good alternative to charge, but nowhere near as impressive as the zealout overdrive engine.

Practical strategic uses I think think of off the top of my head are:
-Shielding a fallen ally for a revive.
-Mobile cover while advancing position. The shield breaks fairly quickly under heavy fire and the max moves incredibly slowly however, so you can't advance particularly far.
-Oh and the reloading bit, that's useful although that's mostly covering an incredible weakness of the NC max.

But I'm curious now, what kind of scenario is it so amazing as you claim?

Additionally, another big problem is that Aegis Shield hits are (or were as I stopped playing after ZoE came out) determined client-side. This means that even if your facing is perfect on your machine, people shooting at you can hit you if you appear to be at a slightly different angle on their machine. What this is amounts to is a constant amount of phantom hits which, in large fights, can mean that you're only delaying your death by a second or two.

ZoE, on the otherhand, never should have made it off the test server. People had long suspected that Sony was testing balance live and only using the test server for bugs, but ZoE confirmed it.

[Kanil]

ZoE, on the otherhand, never should have made it off the test server. People had long suspected that Sony was testing balance live and only using the test server for bugs, but ZoE confirmed it.

Given that they buffed the Vulcan, I'm more in favor of assuming they just have no idea what the fuck they're doing, rather than that they don't bother test anything.

[Silfurdreki]

Yeah, that ZOE thing puts in a different light. Re: Earlier VS MAXes, though, they were shit. One of the guys I played with was a MAX specialist, and he had to dump pretty much everything he earned into it just to be effective. Anything that requires you to superspecialize in order to be competitive is shit, even if it's good once you've ground your way all the way to the top. Incidentally, we also ran NC alts on another server, and all it took to be good with them was a scatcannon. Not even a second one, just the default setup alone would let us roll positions easily.

I also played some with the default TR MAX on my other alt, and while it wasn't as EZmode as NC, it was still respectable. VS MAX without a pile of upgrades is a waste of resources, at least pre-ZOE. Sounds like it might actually have shifted more towards a balance now.

MAX balance is pretty funny, because it was initially NC that were dominating, but now, since being hit with a targeted nerf and then the blanket shotgun nerf, NC MAXes are quite possibly the worst of the MAXes. The problem isn't mainly that the NC MAX shotguns are short-ranged, but rather that their damage is incredibly front loaded and they need to reload more than half of the time if they want to be continually firing. This is a very big negative in the current organised "metagame" where multiple medics with maxed medtools are more common than not. Killing one MAX with the NC MAX is easier than with the others, but then you have to reload for several seconds, which is more than enough time for the enemy to shoot you dead and revive his buddy. Especially since the NC MAX was probably very close to you and were he using aegis shield now has a hard time getting away. Being able to continuously dish out damage is definitely preferable in most situations were I've used a MAX lately.

[Jim Groovester]

A little bit ago I was on the test server trying out dual Pounders in a biolab. I ran Kinetic Armor V for the most part. I think whatever success I had had more to do with that than the Pounders.

Any MAX I met in 1v1 died. I did not fare as well against the many heavies carrying decimators. I very frequently had to punch people because you have to aim two feet to the side of anybody at ridiculously close range to hit them. I had lots of fun.

I consider these results promising.

[Jelle]

A little bit ago I was on the test server trying out dual Pounders in a biolab. I ran Kinetic Armor V for the most part. I think whatever success I had had more to do with that than the Pounders.

Any MAX I met in 1v1 died. I did not fare as well against the many heavies carrying decimators. I very frequently had to punch people because you have to aim two feet to the side of anybody at ridiculously close range to hit them. I had lots of fun.

I consider these results promising.

And I can confirm being at the receiving end of dual pounder tr max on more then one occasion. Those things just rip maxes to shreds, but I would guess infantry to be slightly harder to hit. Still, really quite powerful considering I was running flak armor.
Who knows maybe it was you eh.