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1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[Siquo]

Oh, I meant while running. Virtually every class has "extra abilities and weapons" (mines, hacking, healing, repairing), and the MAX just has more health and double pewpews. Only the HA is more of a "MAX-lite", although he has RocketLaunchers.

[Jelle]

Egh zoe maxes, I hate these guys.

Where NC and TR max get a situational ability, VS gets a max ability that's beneficial to use in just about any situation. I don't think I've seen a VS max ever not use his zoe unless he was a low br and probably didn't have it yet. Really it's a flat out performance upgrade, you will likely take less damage due to the incredible movement speed regardless of armor lost.

Imo if it's going to be a flat power boost I think zoe should be limited in its use. Seems fair, lockdown and aegis usable in certain situation, zoe usable in certain limitations. I think the zoe max should get some form of power gauge that depleted while zoe is activated, and gradually refills when its inactive. This way a zoe max will at least have to back down after his rampage once he's out of juice.

[kaian-a-coel]

Really it's a flat out performance upgrade.

Since the VS MAX used to be flat out worse than the others, it's kinda fair IMO.

[miauw62]

Really it's a flat out performance upgrade.

Since the VS MAX used to be flat out worse than the others, it's kinda fair IMO.

Keywords: USED TO BE. There's been a lot of buffs for the VS max unrelated to the ZOE.

[darkrider2]

Really it's a flat out performance upgrade.

Since the VS MAX used to be flat out worse than the others, it's kinda fair IMO.

*ahem* no.

We will not talk like that in this thread.

I'm goddamn tired of hearing VS players state that the NC MAX was OP for three months every time someone so much as tries to discuss ZOE. It's a heavily implied statement that if one faction was OP for a while, then to balance that out the next faction should be OP, then all's fair. And vice versa UP things become OP, cycle continues.

No. We will not throw game balance out the window because something was OP at one time.

Every goddamn time I discussed air vs ground balance (pre - GU09) I received the argument that "It's you pilots fault for lolpodding everything in sight for 3 months straight".

This mentality is not only sidetracking the conversation, its a detriment to the genuine attempts to balance the game.

Keywords: USED TO BE. There's been a lot of buffs for the VS max unrelated to the ZOE.

After GU08 abouts I noticed a lot more vanu max's being used, up to the level where they were pulled just about as often as TR would pull max's. But after GU09 the ZOE makes the vanu MAX flat out better than using an infantryman, there is no downside to it. The extra damage taken is so easily negated its laughable, there's an engie practically anywhere there's a max, and you've got several different suit slot options specifically built to increase your resistance to damage.

[Neyvn]

Really it's a flat out performance upgrade.

Since the VS MAX used to be flat out worse than the others, it's kinda fair IMO.

Keywords: USED TO BE. There's been a lot of buffs for the VS max unrelated to the ZOE.

I really don't get why people are all about this, the VS Max always used to be a good Max. Just no one ever did so cause a people cried about them and those that saw the crying just joined in without even trying the Max. I remember going toe to toe with many VS Maxes as both NC Infantry and Max and at least 8/10 lost as infantry and 4/10 as Max. This is at Full Health. The main reasons I would lose as a Max is cause they kept range on me, like smart people. The times I won they just seemed to give up and not even try...
 
"Oh no, that NC Max is Charging, I ain't standing still, just gonna charge past/around him so that we keep the sameish distance then turn around and continue kill him. His Shotgun arms are shotguns, stay out of range and they do little to no damage..."
OR
"Hey NC Max, BOOM BOOM BOOM, Surprise MOFO!, Oh your charging at me, woop woop woop, I ducked into this building and out the other door with my charge. Keep close if you can, oh your coming out the other door? SURPRISE MOFO!!! BOOM!!!"

The times I won is when the VS Max just gave up for some stupid reason...

A few months ago, I was being Gibbed as a NC Max by VS Maxes. One on One, you know why, they used their brains...

People really should have stopped trying to hug or let a NC Max hug them. When you don't let them hug you win...

[forsaken1111]

Downside to ZOE: You outrun the engineer trying to repair you.

[Neyvn]

Downside to ZOE: You outrun the engineer trying to repair you.

Upside to ZOE: Your Engineer is further away from the gunfight, less likely to die and only takes a moment to return to him...

[Silfurdreki]

Really it's a flat out performance upgrade.

Since the VS MAX used to be flat out worse than the others, it's kinda fair IMO.

*ahem* no.

We will not talk like that in this thread.

I'm goddamn tired of hearing VS players state that the NC MAX was OP for three months every time someone so much as tries to discuss ZOE. It's a heavily implied statement that if one faction was OP for a while, then to balance that out the next faction should be OP, then all's fair. And vice versa UP things become OP, cycle continues.

No. We will not throw game balance out the window because something was OP at one time.

Every goddamn time I discussed air vs ground balance (pre - GU09) I received the argument that "It's you pilots fault for lolpodding everything in sight for 3 months straight".

This mentality is not only sidetracking the conversation, its a detriment to the genuine attempts to balance the game.

Thank you! I can understand people feeling like that, but to actually use it as an argument for game balance? The official PS2 forums are an infuriating and strange place to be around.

[Jelle]

This mentality is not only sidetracking the conversation, its a detriment to the genuine attempts to balance the game.

Amen

So I had a lot of certs earned over the double xp weekend and I decided to expand my repertoire with a few additions to my arsenal. Decided to invest in the vanguard and learn how to drive one of these hunks of metal.

I should note I've had a lot of previous experience driving the lightning. Not that I ever was to interested in spending to much time in a tank, I mostly felt like it was a waste to not use my vehicle resource. Got me a HEAT cannon for my lightning a long time back and got pretty good at it if I do say so myself. Hitting infantry with direct HEAT round hits every day all day at just about any range. Have no problem going for a head shot on infantry in medium to close range, and hit most shots at long range provided I take a good 5 seconds to take aim. Bottom line, I know how to handle my lightning.

I thought making the transition to a vanguard wouldn't be much effort, I thought wrong. I don't know what it is about this thing, I'm using the very similar titan HEAT cannon as the one I'm used to on my lightning. I don't know, it just doesn't seem as accurate as the one on the lightning. I find that I have to consistently aim a bit more to the right (or was it the left, not sure) of the reticule, as if the reticule is off the cannon by a significant margin. Maybe it's some kind of convergence issue, no idea really all I know is I'm having a hard time pulling off those perfect acccuracy shots.
Additionally where I love having enemy infantry close range in my lightning, it's hell on my vanguard. I simply cannot hit infantry in close range with this cannon. Don't know what it is, maybe the lower profile of the lightning lends itself more to taking shots at infantry, but on a vanguard I find myself incapable of scoring direct hits up close. Really annoying when I have to turn tail from two heavies in close range because I cannot hit them for the life of me.

Otherwise it's smooth sailing. Amazing velocity and low bullet drop make this thing a beast at taking down liberators and even esf. The accuracy issues seem a bit less on long range, so I've had good results playing more like mobile artillery.

Anyway certs! I already bought the enforcer secondary, wich appears to be amazing, front armor and the shield. Right now I'm trying to figure out wich performance cert I want and wether I want a new cannon. On one hand I'm used to the HEAT and it has served me well thus far, on the other hand I'm used to scoring direct hits in infantry wich I believe is just as possible with armor piercing rounds. I used the rival chassis on my lightning, but I honestly can't decide wich the vanguard needs more. Both it's turning speed and acceleration are incredibly poor. First thought is rival, to make sure I can turn to face with front armor in a close quarter tank showdown.

[Silfurdreki]

The accuracy troubles you have sound very much like a convergence issue. The vanguard's main cannon barrel is probably more offset from the camera than the lightning's. I hear the issue is even worse for prowlers.

[Jim Groovester]

Any TR people out there besides me?

I have 500 certs to spare and I'm considering getting the following guns:

LC3 Jaguar (250c)
TAR (250c)
TMG-50 (500c)
Dual Mutilators (250c x 2)
The second H3 Pounder (250c)

The MAX guns didn't impress me that much, but the other three guns do. But I obviously can't get all three of them. Which ones are worth it?

The accuracy troubles you have sound very much like a convergence issue. The vanguard's main cannon barrel is probably more offset from the camera than the lightning's. I hear the issue is even worse for prowlers.

It's alright enough for shooting tanks. But it's damned hard shooting that heavy who's fifty meters or so away and about to shoot you with a rocket. I'm not sure either barrel is aligned with the optics.

[Toaster]

That's the one thing I hate about dual falcons on the NC MAX- they're both offset and I can't hit infantry (and usually MAXes) for shit with them.  The problem is exacerbated by my nonstandard keybind.  (I have jump on right click and alt fire on space- that means I shoot the right arm with my left hand and vice versa.)

[Tylui]

ERMAGERD NC MAX NO TAKE DAMAGE WHEN SHIELD IS UP PLZ NERF

[Neyvn]

ERMAGERD NC MAX NO TAKE DAMAGE WHEN SHIELD IS UP PLZ NERF

SoE's Reply - OMG YOU TOTS RIGT, TR AND VS SHOD ALWY B BETTA DEN NC!!! NERF!!!