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1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[Graknorke]

AA guns work well as a deterrent, like they're supposed to. They're good at keeping aircraft away.

But that isn't any good for the operator. Which is one of the big flaws with this game. It's focused around team objectives, but rewards the players only for things they personally kill.

[sluissa]

I have NO idea what game you guys are playing... Aircraft are a threat, yes, but I've never felt them to be a more significant threat than anything else out there. If you're getting repeatedly nailed by them, then you're playing stupid. You can hear low altitude aircraft coming from a good distance around and high altitude aircraft have a time lag problem with accuracy. Don't stay in the open if there's a high altitude lib flying around. Low altitiude? you should be able to nail it pretty easy with some sort of weapon. Fighters? Same rules mostly. Added benefit of the rocket cooldown. Most pilots will unload a whole packet of rockets at once and that gives you the short cooldown period to dodge between cover. If they're low enough to aim effectively at infantry, they're low enough to be hit reasonably easily(or scared off at least) with some sort of weapon.

I've NEVER been as scared of aircraft as I have of a tank rolling into a base, but even that's possible to deal with if you stay in cover and move around and work as a group. I can avoid a tank in a base almost indefinitely unless I get sloppy or he gets reinforcements. With some help, we can easily kill a tank.

I hate to say it but all I'm hearing is "We're trying to play this game the wrong way and we want you to fix it so it's the right way! WAAAAAAHHHHH!~"

I personally used to think tank columns were overpowered and needed to be dealt with somehow as if you had enough tanks it felt like you could roll into any base and dominate it... that is until I took part in one of those very columns and got decimated by a well organized force defending the base. Oh, we fought a good fight, took some of them with us, but while it seems hard to kill a tank from the outside, it seems just as hard to keep it alive from the inside. I've also flown a good few of every aircraft, and it's the exact same story. It feels tough from both sides...

Having walked a mile in most shoes you can get in this game(I admit to having not played much engineer beyond just using it as a pilot/driver to repair) I feel like that's the way it should be. Everyone should have a tough time of it. But... Everyone has their niche and every situation has a method of dealing with it.

Just because your chosen method doesn't work on everything, just because you've gotten unlucky a few times, just because someone more skilled came along and killed you doesn't mean you should run through the streets screaming nerf!

Now, at the same time... changes do need to be made, but slowly... with thought... and not as a knee jerk response to emotional players.

[miauw62]

"Don't stay out in the open if there's a high altitude lib around".

Nevermind that 90% of the fighting takes place in open terrain (except for biolabs).


Altough I do agree that it feels hard from both sides. On the other hand, you can't lock onto max-altitude libs with an AA launcher, wich should probably be fixed.


E: Oh, and yes, an assault CAN be taken down by an organized force. Mind the emphasis on CAN, as in 99% of the cases, there won't be an organized force at all.

[sluissa]

"Don't stay out in the open if there's a high altitude lib around".

Nevermind that 90% of the fighting takes place in open terrain (except for biolabs).

Excepting parts of Esamir, there are always trees, always rocks and nooks and crannys. Unless you're talking about the more open bases... but if you don't consider what they've got at the bases "cover" then again, you're doing it wrong. 90% of my fighting is in or near a base. Only time I'm fighting in open terrain is when there's a big line of combat between two major bases that has to be pushed back, and that's somewhat rare and usually there's huge groups of people playing, including a good number of friendly ESFs which are keeping the enemy air busy.

[miauw62]

Even if there IS cover, you still need to run trough open space to attack. There are situations where you can't do anything because you'll get instagibbed by an invincible lib the moment you come out.

[Graknorke]

I pretty much cant give any valid input since I quit after realising I am irredeemably terrible at this game.

But there's a fuckton of places in between bases where you can be pinned behind a tree or rock by a Liberator because of the scarcity of cover.

[kaian-a-coel]

I'm not complaining about the fact that if we wander in the open with aircrafts around we're gonna get gibbed. I'm complaining about the fact that while there's aircraft around, you're pretty much PINNED and can't do as much as get a look outside without getting a faceful of rocketry. And if the air cavalry don't come to the rescue, you're fucked, because you need three MAXes per rocket aircraft to take them out. Not even speaking about libs.
Even as a shitty pilot without the allmighty ROCKETS, I've pretty much never been destroyed by G2A. More skilled ESF take me out no problem, but G2A? they have trouble.

[Spaghetti7]

I'm not complaining about the fact that if we wander in the open with aircrafts around we're gonna get gibbed. I'm complaining about the fact that while there's aircraft around, you're pretty much PINNED and can't do as much as get a look outside without getting a faceful of rocketry. And if the air cavalry don't come to the rescue, you're fucked, because you need three MAXes per rocket aircraft to take them out. Not even speaking about libs.
Even as a shitty pilot without the allmighty ROCKETS, I've pretty much never been destroyed by G2A. More skilled ESF take me out no problem, but G2A? they have trouble.

Regarding this, today was the first time I was shot down by G2A. It made me stop for a moment (I fly a lot) and realise that that had never happened before, so the nerfs and buffs are obviously doing something. It was an odd experience.

[Darkening Kaos]

With the AA Turrets, you must have all available operating to do any good, preferably with gunners who know what they are doing.

I can hit Scythes no problem, but mozzies are still a pain.  Fortunately, mozzie pilots come at you in a straight line, that relieves some of the difficulty, they still rack off when you show any competence in hitting them with 90% of your shots.

[miauw62]

I'm not complaining about the fact that if we wander in the open with aircrafts around we're gonna get gibbed. I'm complaining about the fact that while there's aircraft around, you're pretty much PINNED and can't do as much as get a look outside without getting a faceful of rocketry. And if the air cavalry don't come to the rescue, you're fucked, because you need three MAXes per rocket aircraft to take them out. Not even speaking about libs.

This is what I was trying to say.

[sluissa]

Even if there IS cover, you still need to run trough open space to attack. There are situations where you can't do anything because you'll get instagibbed by an invincible lib the moment you come out.

This is impossible... If they're flying that high there is a severe lag time between the shots being fired and them landing. They can't just make you 'splode soon as they see you. Now, if they're just carpet bombing the area, it's quite possible they'll just hit you randomly, but libs have a reload time on their guns so if you time it right, you can make a safe run.

I pretty much cant give any valid input since I quit after realising I am irredeemably terrible at this game.

But there's a fuckton of places in between bases where you can be pinned behind a tree or rock by a Liberator because of the scarcity of cover.

You hide, you hide and wait till they go away, because to a liberator, a single infantry person is usually small change and they'll move on to bigger targets soon enough. You just have to not attract attention.

I'm not complaining about the fact that if we wander in the open with aircrafts around we're gonna get gibbed. I'm complaining about the fact that while there's aircraft around, you're pretty much PINNED and can't do as much as get a look outside without getting a faceful of rocketry. And if the air cavalry don't come to the rescue, you're fucked, because you need three MAXes per rocket aircraft to take them out. Not even speaking about libs.
Even as a shitty pilot without the allmighty ROCKETS, I've pretty much never been destroyed by G2A. More skilled ESF take me out no problem, but G2A? they have trouble.

Switch to HA, throw some dumbfire rockets at them. A dumbfire rocket, if it hits, should kill an ESF... even if it doesn't, it puts them on the defensive and they have to dodge now rather than just hover and rocket spam. And as a fighter, it is a pain in the ass to line up a shot again if you have to move around and dodge. Even the HA's gun is enough to do some damage to a ESF and that'll sometimes scare them off if they know they're taking damage. An HA with shields should be able to take a rocket or two from a fighter as well, as long as you get your shot off and get back inside before the whole packet hits, you should be able to survive.

[kaian-a-coel]

It MAY work if there's only ONE aircraft around, but when there's five, what do you do?

[miauw62]

Mind the "if it hits". It's hard as fuck to hit an ESF with a dumbfire rocket. Sure, they'll have to fly around again, but as long as they aren't dead, they'll just fly around for 5 seconds and return.

[sluissa]

It MAY work if there's only ONE aircraft around, but when there's five, what do you do?

You've got five of anything aiming at your ass, what do you do? Get up and leave or call in reinforcements. In that case it's just a numbers game. Five libs, essentially 10-15 people all aiming at you? and it's hard to deal with? I call that fair.

Edit: Misread slightly, but if it's fighters, again, numbers game. 5 on 1 ain't easy either, but if you've got teammates around, encourage them to do the same thing. A sky full of rockets, even dumbfire rockets is intimidating, even to a group of fighters. and I"ll guarantee you those fighters won't be working together well, and likely at all. Just as likely to crash into each other dodging as they are to get hit by a rocket.

Mind the "if it hits". It's hard as fuck to hit an ESF with a dumbfire rocket. Sure, they'll have to fly around again, but as long as they aren't dead, they'll just fly around for 5 seconds and return.

It's hard, but not impossible, but it's certainly going to give them some second thoughts about their rocket spam tactic even if they don't get hit. It'll likely take a few more seconds than 5 to make a loop around and line up again... and those seconds are valuable. Get to better cover. Reload. Find a better angle to shoot from. Do something constructive, don't just sit there and wait till he comes around again and pins you down.

[Spaghetti7]

Mind the "if it hits". It's hard as fuck to hit an ESF with a dumbfire rocket. Sure, they'll have to fly around again, but as long as they aren't dead, they'll just fly around for 5 seconds and return.

It's only hard to hit a DECENT ESF pilot with dumbfire. I've managed to get about 3 that just sat there and watched the rocket smash into their cockpit. There is no minimum intelligence for you to use rocket pods.