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How many outfits are we going to have (in the name of Science)?

1: NC
2: NC and TR
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Author Topic: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.  (Read 1135740 times)

Toaster

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8415 on: November 01, 2013, 11:23:47 am »

I still don't know why there isn't a cooldown.  Even if it was ten minutes, it'd discourage casual assholery.  A hardcore asshole would just have three accounts anyway.

An outfit-mate of mine swears by C4 against Magriders- since you can duck when one charges you, go under it safely, and C4 its underside.

I think you underestimate how easy it is to find a second person in a game with hundreds of people playing at any given moment.

Especially considering gunning for one is 1) fun 2) great XP
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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8416 on: November 01, 2013, 12:46:36 pm »

However, finding a good gunner is hard. :D
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Flying Dice

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8417 on: November 01, 2013, 01:02:26 pm »

Hence why I certed out my Scythe instead of my Lib. >.>
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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8418 on: November 01, 2013, 01:28:09 pm »

Same here, same here.
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zombat

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8419 on: November 01, 2013, 01:32:06 pm »

I only accept outfit gunners, being on voip together is a major boon
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Jelle

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8420 on: November 01, 2013, 02:28:05 pm »

I always leave my secondary open for anyone to enter. If I get someone who is trigger happy I just notify them and they usually stop. Good for new players to get some experience, and gunning for a mbt is easy enough anyway.

Not so much for libs ofcourse, but I do sometimes give random players a shot. Surprisingly funny how many randoms will exit the vehicle mid flight to fall to their death. Not so funny is how terrible players are at it most of the time, figuring out how much to lead can be challenging for the inexperienced. Hence why I fly my lib solo half the time. I have on occasion found some pretty good gunners though, who ask me to fly for them again some time.
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BurnedToast

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8421 on: November 01, 2013, 02:34:51 pm »

See, here's the thing. There are precisely two effective infantry AV weapons: the AV turret, and lockon launchers. Both are effective because they're nearly impossible to avoid, virtually impossible to detect (literally so if fired from beyond render range, at least currently), and able to kill faster than tanks can get to cover. In other words, cheese. So either you've got tanks splatting infantry with impunity because C4 and mines do fuck-all to a tank that keeps a healthy distance, or you've got infantry cheesing tanks that can't retaliate. Why, exactly, is a weapon with higher TTK and less damage per shot a worse thing than the AV turret, especially when you'd actually need to AIM and LEAD if the tank isn't stationary? If something that takes 8 shots to kill you starts pinging you, you've got time to scram and get out of range/to cover. If an AV turret round/lockon rocket hits you and you aren't already at long range and right beside cover, you're almost certainly dead.

I'll reiterate: C4 is fucking useless against tanks. It takes two bricks to kill a Lightning, which requires a) 700 certs, b) lots of infantry resources to keep your stock up, c) you to get into melee range with them without being killed, which is pretty much only possible in bases and certain parts of the mountainous regions of Indar and Amerish. And if it's a MBT, oh joy, you just wasted a bunch of resources because they're just going to drive off and repair.

Mines are even worse, being roughly the size of an ESF, and requiring the enemy to somehow not manage to see the giant warning signs on the road before driving over them. That's assuming you can a) find a choke point where mines won't be inadvertently avoided and b) do so in a place and time where enemy vehicles actually might come that way. Otherwise they're just a shittier sort of C4 for Sundie-killing.

As for the blindfire launchers? Heh, sure. Good luck landing enough shots to kill on a tank that isn't braindead even at close range, much less sniping you from 800m away.

dumb fire launchers work fine, try popping around corners or ducking behind rocks, or whatever. No, you won't get the guys shelling the base from barely inside render range but they aren't being tremendously useful to their team either. It's a totally free starting weapon on a class that can respawn in a few seconds with no limits or costs, and it works great considering that's what it is.

C4 also works fine, I've killed LOTS of tanks with it as LA. 700 certs is a little expensive but not that much (the guy in the tank probably spent more then that on his tank). The infantry resource is annoying, but now that tanks cost more it's a good trade. Also, 2 bricks of c4 will 100% kill a MBT too so I don't know what you mean about him driving off to repair. If you think C4 is quote "fucking useless", you're doing it wrong, no you can't charge the front of a tank across an open field and expect to C4 it, but there's plenty of situations where you can fly over it and drop some or run up behind it (nobody uses radar, ever).

You also totally forgot base turrets, which are BRUTAL. They will shred any tanks have excellent range, unlimited ammo, and cost nothing (in fact you get certs for fixing them if they get blown up).

I agree mines were overnerfed. You can still use them sometimes if you find a road that twists behind a rock, or something, so they drive over them before they see them but mostly.. yeah. Old mines were too good because the render distance was so short you literally could not stop before you hit them even if you slammed the brakes the instant they rendered (and sometimes they sunk into the ground and never rendered at all). They fixed that.... and made them HUGE in the same patch for some reason.

As for the sniper thing, even if it takes 8 shots we don't need a team of 4 people being able to lock down an area and make it totally 100% invulnerable against all tanks (and if almost hitscan speed, libs galaxies and maybe even ESF) forever, or worse a team of 8 people coordinating to instagib tanks with no warning and no chance for retaliation ever. If you can't see how this is a terrible idea, I don't even know what else to say.

I'll say it again, tanks aren't a problem. It's tank zergs, but it's the zerg part of that not the tank part that's causing the problem, the tanks just make the problem somewhat worse.
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DJ

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8422 on: November 01, 2013, 03:01:42 pm »

As an LA player, I'm quite happy with infantry's AV capabilities.
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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8423 on: November 01, 2013, 04:02:19 pm »

1 - A antimaterial rifle already exists. It's called the Lancer and is for VS only.
2 - The base turrets are often useless. When a proper base attack comes they are usually destroyed almost instantly because htey can't hide behinda rock and they cannot reliably kill any enemy vehicle because THEY can. Not ot mention they are often put in derpy places that limit their fireing arc leaving humongous blind spots for enemies to exploit... i had fun session of skeet shooting of infantry zergs tho... mostly because they die in one hit unlike tanks that run off and repair.
3 - Zergs are an integral part of the game. You literally cannot make a MMO without players sometimes bunching up and going on a rampage.
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NullForceOmega

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8424 on: November 01, 2013, 04:10:39 pm »

The zerging is mostly due to a lack of an over-arching command structure, the outfits are nice but they mostly lack the sheer numbers to effectively co-ordinate strategy beyond 'get a lot of guys and attack'  It is a general failing of the do whatever mentality of many gamers, I'm guilty of it too, I have no outfit, I just look for a fight and do my best to contribute.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8425 on: November 01, 2013, 04:42:48 pm »

See, here's the thing. There are precisely two effective infantry AV weapons: the AV turret, and lockon launchers. Both are effective because they're nearly impossible to avoid, virtually impossible to detect (literally so if fired from beyond render range, at least currently), and able to kill faster than tanks can get to cover. In other words, cheese. So either you've got tanks splatting infantry with impunity because C4 and mines do fuck-all to a tank that keeps a healthy distance, or you've got infantry cheesing tanks that can't retaliate. Why, exactly, is a weapon with higher TTK and less damage per shot a worse thing than the AV turret, especially when you'd actually need to AIM and LEAD if the tank isn't stationary? If something that takes 8 shots to kill you starts pinging you, you've got time to scram and get out of range/to cover. If an AV turret round/lockon rocket hits you and you aren't already at long range and right beside cover, you're almost certainly dead.

I'll reiterate: C4 is fucking useless against tanks. It takes two bricks to kill a Lightning, which requires a) 700 certs, b) lots of infantry resources to keep your stock up, c) you to get into melee range with them without being killed, which is pretty much only possible in bases and certain parts of the mountainous regions of Indar and Amerish. And if it's a MBT, oh joy, you just wasted a bunch of resources because they're just going to drive off and repair.

Mines are even worse, being roughly the size of an ESF, and requiring the enemy to somehow not manage to see the giant warning signs on the road before driving over them. That's assuming you can a) find a choke point where mines won't be inadvertently avoided and b) do so in a place and time where enemy vehicles actually might come that way. Otherwise they're just a shittier sort of C4 for Sundie-killing.

As for the blindfire launchers? Heh, sure. Good luck landing enough shots to kill on a tank that isn't braindead even at close range, much less sniping you from 800m away.

dumb fire launchers work fine, try popping around corners or ducking behind rocks, or whatever. No, you won't get the guys shelling the base from barely inside render range but they aren't being tremendously useful to their team either. It's a totally free starting weapon on a class that can respawn in a few seconds with no limits or costs, and it works great considering that's what it is.

C4 also works fine, I've killed LOTS of tanks with it as LA. 700 certs is a little expensive but not that much (the guy in the tank probably spent more then that on his tank). The infantry resource is annoying, but now that tanks cost more it's a good trade. Also, 2 bricks of c4 will 100% kill a MBT too so I don't know what you mean about him driving off to repair. If you think C4 is quote "fucking useless", you're doing it wrong, no you can't charge the front of a tank across an open field and expect to C4 it, but there's plenty of situations where you can fly over it and drop some or run up behind it (nobody uses radar, ever).

You also totally forgot base turrets, which are BRUTAL. They will shred any tanks have excellent range, unlimited ammo, and cost nothing (in fact you get certs for fixing them if they get blown up).

Didn't actually read my post, did you? Here, I'll repeat the relevant bit:

Non-cheesy AV weapons are either not present or completely useless in field battles. If you aren't inside a base/in an area with a lot of vertical terrain and chokepoints, you aren't going to get close enough to C4 a competent driver, and you aren't going to be able to land enough shots with the dumbfire launcher to kill before you die/they drive away. Base turrets are strong, yes, but they have terrible positioning and can only hurt enemies that approach the base from within their arc of fire.

If you're on Indar in between bases and spot an enemy tank, say, 80m or so away, you've got terrible chances of getting close enough to kill it unless you're with a massive swarm of infantry and the tank is alone. Hell, you'll be lucky to hurt it. I get plenty of C4 kills on tanks, but I get them inside bases and mountainous areas, where there is little room for the tank to run away and plenty of cover for me to sneak around/over. I don't see why this is a hard concept to grasp.
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BurnedToast

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8426 on: November 01, 2013, 07:22:48 pm »

I guess I'm confused about why you care about the tank who sitting 100's of meters away shelling the base. He's not going to get very many kills and he can't help capture the points or really contribute to the fight so.... just ignore him and let him derp away while you shoot the infantry in the base?

Sonlirain - yes, zerging is part of the game that's never going to go away.... which is fine except the enemy never counter-zergs, everyone just shuffles around in a big circle capping empty bases and feeling badass while they spawn kill the few defenders too stupid to realize they can't win a 10:1 fight no matter how many times they charge out to their deaths. If two zergs ever meet, whichever side starts to lose (even by a little bit) instantly disintegrates and it's back to capping with no opposition.

It gets pretty stale after a while, especially since small squad action simply does not exist at all (if you form a small squad you're just empty capping bases till you hit the zerg and instantly splat).
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Flying Dice

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8427 on: November 01, 2013, 07:58:54 pm »

I guess I'm confused about why you care about the tank who sitting 100's of meters away shelling the base. He's not going to get very many kills and he can't help capture the points or really contribute to the fight so.... just ignore him and let him derp away while you shoot the infantry in the base?
...

At this point, I honestly don't know. What part of "FIELD BATTLE" do you not comprehend? Y'know, the sort of back-and forth that happens when two large groups run into each other between bases? Where, rather than one side hiding in the base while the other attacks, both factions are trying to gain ground and force the enemy back into a base? Granted, it happens less often than it should, but it's not terribly rare, either. A couple of spots that tend to encourage it are: on Indar: the plains between Indar Excavation and Quartz Ridge; between Xenotech and Regent Rock; south of Mao Tech Plant; hell, pretty much everywhere on the W-SW third of the map; on Amerish: Nowhere, because it's Amerish; on Esamir: the whole frozen river/flatland running W-E from Jaeger's to East River Sky; the area around Snowshear; the area around the Rink; the area between Freyr and Rime Analytics; etc.

I mean, true, it's sort of fucked up how that sort of thing only happens when two zergs of equal force butt heads, but it does happen, and I relish it. The sort of situation where you've got a pair of opposing battle lines stretched across plains and low hills, armor trading shots, infantry clustered around rock outcrops, ESFs making suicidal runs on the same... It's a whole lot of fun, and I wish it happened more often. More often it's straggling resistance trying to slow down an enemy zerg on the same terrain. In either case, though, C4, mines, and dumbfire rockets are all near-useless because there aren't (m)any positions to ambush the armor from, while lockon launchers and AV turrets will already be positioned hundreds of meters away attacking with impunity. :/

Basically: Situations where enemy armor does not need to come to you to be effective, but where you need to push the enemy back to be effective. Not a tank stupidly driving into your base. Not a tank shelling your base from a kilometer away. A tank positioned in the field to block your advance towards an enemy base. The best you can do against a competent tanker would be to either wait for friendly armor, wait for someone to cheese it with an AV turret, or circle hundreds of meters perpendicular to your line of advance to get past it.
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BurnedToast

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8428 on: November 01, 2013, 08:39:33 pm »

Basically: Situations where enemy armor does not need to come to you to be effective, but where you need to push the enemy back to be effective. Not a tank stupidly driving into your base. Not a tank shelling your base from a kilometer away. A tank positioned in the field to block your advance towards an enemy base. The best you can do against a competent tanker would be to either wait for friendly armor, wait for someone to cheese it with an AV turret, or circle hundreds of meters perpendicular to your line of advance to get past it.

I guess, I'll just say in my opinion in the situation you describe: footzerging across an open plain with absolutely no cover, air, or armor support, the infantry deserve to be slaughtered by the tank and I think it's working as intended, and leave it at that.

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Flying Dice

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #8429 on: November 01, 2013, 09:47:41 pm »

Basically: Situations where enemy armor does not need to come to you to be effective, but where you need to push the enemy back to be effective. Not a tank stupidly driving into your base. Not a tank shelling your base from a kilometer away. A tank positioned in the field to block your advance towards an enemy base. The best you can do against a competent tanker would be to either wait for friendly armor, wait for someone to cheese it with an AV turret, or circle hundreds of meters perpendicular to your line of advance to get past it.

I guess, I'll just say in my opinion in the situation you describe: footzerging across an open plain with absolutely no cover, air, or armor support, the infantry deserve to be slaughtered by the tank and I think it's working as intended, and leave it at that.

Once again you apparently read this first and last line of my post.

e: What I'm saying is, it'd be nice to have an AV option for infantry that isn't the sort of single-role thing that C4/mines/dumbfire rockets are, but which also isn't cheesy hard-counter stuff like AV Mana turrets and lockon launchers.
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