Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[bluejello]

I like the AV turret, have the best runs with it if I get to a overlook or above the enemy and can set it up.  have gotten a lot of certs with it, taking down a sundie that has a max and several high-threat targets is always nice.  and with some skill you can snipe with it.  direct hit kills most people.

UBGL is also very nice if you can get into a position to use it.  Twice I have gotten into such possitions, latest was when I was part of a base defense and managed to get to a fairly safe point above the enemy and started raining explosives onto them.

[Darkening Kaos]

Oh man. Laughed my ass off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz6AlHQGY_Q

The internets has been won......you can all go home now and have a life.

[Rez]

I feel you.  I definitely dislike the limitation on the engie when it comes to AV.  C4 is nice, but the engie relies on the vehicles driver being stupid or inattentive, whereas LA has significantly more tools for planting C4.  Most of the engineers AV kit is their anti-tank mines, which are pre-battle countermeasures.  I guess engineers do have the tools, but it's not the same as an HA, and if you can do the AV missile thing with an engineer, you never have to pull HA.  I'm Vanu not NC, so my faction launcher is decent and fits my play-style fairly well..  Generally speaking, though, I like to stay as engineer, because of the utility is provides for keeping allied vehicles alive and removing a lot of the munition constraints.

The engi AI turret needs to get an upgrade to its CoF.  Right now, it excels at one thing only: camping doors.  Arguably, that's a job better suited for MAX's, since they can actually shoot people through the doorway without getting instagibbed by snipers, rockets, and under-barrel grenade launchers.  Giving it a better CoF would let it be used to cover advances and so on, while still making the engineer food for the myriad of vulture snipers.  Given the number of snipers in every battle, there's really no reason for the turret to not be much, much stronger.

[Toaster]

I like the engy due to being the most versatile soldier on the battlefield.  Let's review:

Slot 1: Carbines, Shotguns, SMGs, Battle Rifle (some with underbarrel options)
Slot 2: Pistols  (okay not here)
Slot 3: Become the best buddy of a MAX, and keep those now more expensive tanks going.  Now with mine defusal!
Slot 4: More ammo or C4, tank mines, proxy mines (and the ability to carry more of these than anyone else)
Slot 5: Two turret options that each flip into an ammo pack.

Also, sticky nades.

There are several roles that can be filled here.  Mix and match to any situation, and any engineer update is only going to result in more choice.



I'll agree that the engy AI turret is unimpressive.

[Kanil]

I've been playing engineer a bit more lately, too. It's so flexible on defense. UBGL for clustered infantry, AV turret for general awesomeness, AP mines to keep LAs away when you're preoccupied with your turret. Not to mention being able to repair and rearm nearby MAXes. Haven't tried sticky grenades, but regular grenades are kinda obsoleted by the UBGL, so might as well pick 'em up.

You might even argue that the flares help your friendlies see Vanu in the dark.

All it needs now are some deployable walls or something.

[Rez]

Deployable czech hedgehogs or dragon's teeth would be great.  Destroyable by engineer gun or C4 only.  No limit on number placed or a high limit, but only allow them to be placed within 1 or 2 meters of each other..

It'd completely change the dynamic of the game if you could force vehicle zergs to stop in between bases.

Seems to me that deployable walls would be really easy to abuse.

[Toaster]

They'd be insane for setting up chokepoints in canyon Indar, and defending places like the Ascent.  More ACE tool options please!

[Jim Groovester]

I'll agree that the engy AI turret is unimpressive.

I use it as a decoy. As in, hey enemies, look over here and shoot this.

I have no idea how effective it is in that role. It worked on a lightning once.

[SalmonGod]

Yeah... every time I try to set up an engie turret, I can't even man it for more than a couple seconds, because it immediately draws such a massive hailstorm of every kind of enemy fire.  And if I manage to hold through that, a sniper will still pick me off before I can do anything meaningful.

[Rez]

Like I said, the inaccuracy and the priority it attracts mean it's only good for gunning people down as they run into doorways or around corners.  Inaccuracy means it's only good for volume fire or close fighting (which is bad for someone who is stationary).  The priority means that in close and long fighting, you will almost always be prioritized over anyone else; I do mean everyone.  The priority is because TTK with the turret is awesome at point blank and you're an incredibly easy shot for a sniper, tank, ha, etc.  The only way to play around these issues is to make sure the people you're shooting don't know you're there until they're dead and to fight in the 1-10 meter range with it.

For example, I dropped my turret at the top of the short stairs in the biolab cap/shield gen building (the pair of curvey walkway buildings).  I could fire out of the doorway easily, but the only way for someone to have vision of me was to walk into the doorway.  I got a ton of kills before people stopped running through willy-nilly and then I still got kills for about 3 minutes while they were figuring out a way to neutralize the building.  Wouldn't have worked if that building hadn't already been full of MAX's and other stuff, because they'd just flank with a single person and kill me from behind.

So there are instances where it is very effective, but, in my mind, the only positive the turret has over an AI MAX is that it takes one person to operate while it is laying down fire.  My experience is that MAX's essentially require constant repairing if they're fighting.  That means at least one engineer and one MAX.  The turret doesn't take very much damage at all from small arms and you can replant it every 10 seconds, so you don't need any repairs on it, ever.  That advantage is far offset by the disadvantages: 120 arc or so, low base overheat limit, and no mobility.  So, in reality, it takes multiple people to maintain that fighting position, as well, to revive the engineer, to prevent them from getting flanked, etc..  Generally speaking, AI MAX gives you both the short TTK of the turret and all of the things the turret doesn't give you.

Because the engineer is already so versatile, I think it's alright for the turret to have a narrow range of applications.  There are ways to make it stronger without making the turret OP, but maybe not without making engineers OP.  No other class gives you the range of actions you get from the engineer.

Slot 2: Pistols  (okay not here)

Maybe they'll patch an actual flare launcher and implement it as a secondary, like our fireworks launchers.

[Jim Groovester]

Like I said, the inaccuracy and the priority it attracts mean it's only good for gunning people down as they run into doorways or around corners.

It's actually extremely accurate in short bursts. The first four or five bullets are right on the crosshairs, and the CoF reset once you stop firing is almost instantaneous. In practice, it's easy to maintain nearly the same RoF and have incredible accuracy if you fire it like it's a burst weapon.

[palsch]

My own thoughts and loadouts for the engineer;

The engineer is the most generally useful class, but has no combat abilities* making it the weakest (IMO) for deliberate direct combat. As such I usually go for even more utility with the UBGL and IRNV scope on a Gauss Compact S. I massively prefer the Mercenary as a carbine and reflex sights for most situations, but here I'm looking to fill roles others can't, and that means suppression with grenade spam and shooting through smoke when my allies are blinded.

I throw on the suppressor as well as it gives a slight advantage in most situations an engineer might find themselves in. In particular, if you have just had your vehicle blown up then the enemies might not know if you survived for a few seconds. Being able to fire without giving up your position to everyone helps that confusion. This costs you a little more default firepower when you are already hurting, but you are already losing a straight up fight and this helps you avoid them.

It's also worth remembering that the UBGL grenades don't arm unless they travel at least 10 meters. They do still do direct hit damage but can't one-shot without the explosive damage, which is OK given the hit box is huge and you will shoot friends in the back of the head a lot when trying to fire over them.

Oh, and the UBGL does damage to tanks. I've actually gotten a kill this way, when an enemy lighting took out my own after I'd got him nearly on fire. Put both grenades into him before he could repair or work out what that noise was. It's not a viable AV weapon, but as a last resort or distraction (getting them to think an AV threat is above/beside/behind them rather than concentrate on that actual AV/armour nest they were about to wipe out) it works fine and is surprisingly easy to get hits with.

Sticky grenades go on every build. They are the best way to detonate tank mines under an enemy sunderer, but they are also a really fun way to kill infantry. Sticking a flashing grenade to one guy who then carries death to his friends is hard but rewarding. This does leave me without any fully indirect room clearing grenade (UBGL can't bounce either) but I'm already avoiding the direct assault role when possible. Leave that to allies.

I split my engineer loadouts into one AV/driver/gunner and one AI/indoor build. Stickies/Compact S/UBGL are the same on all of these. For AV I use the AV turret, tank mines and flak 4. For AI it's the AI turret (rarely if ever used, but a more useful decoy/doorblocker for indoors fights), AP mines and nanoweave 4. These days I only really use the AI build in biolabs as a dedicated support/suppression role, mostly keeping spawn rooms secure, MAXes up and similar. I tend to swap my third loadout to be AV with AI mines or (much more rarely) vice versa for times when I still have active mines of one kind but want to use the other build and don't want to mess up my defaults.


* For reference, I split the other classes into tanking abilities (medic with AoE heal and HA with shield) and closing abilities (LA jetpack and infiltrator cloak). The first set should survive longer than you in a straight up fight while the second should get the drop on you before you can bring your own damage to bear. Not that a good engineer can't beat any of these and plenty of people fail to use their abilities, but any of those classes is generally better for direct combat if played right.

[TolyK]

Best use for the engie AI turret?
Block off tower A-points.

[Sonlirain]

Ah yes the sticky grenade...

I had tons of fun with it.
One time in biolabs defending checkpoint C i saw a Vanu MAX coming up the stairs.
I dropped one AP mine at the nearest door and waited... here he comes... BOOM AP mine detonated.
I throw the grenade at him... it sticks.
I start unloading my shotgun on him and managed to put 6 rounds into his torso before he finally understood what's going on and fries me with his zappy blasters...

BOOM.

Extreme menace kill.
Revenge kill.
MAX kill.

[Jelle]

The AI turret is good in some situation, but those are pretty rare. It's not common that you need to hold ground in an infantry fight, it's usually a blitz to get the enemy camped in their spawn.

I just unloaded all of my armor piercing rockets and a block of c4 on a harasser. The harasser survived and promptly roadkilled me....seems balanced.