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1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[Duuvian]

For posterity, here is what is getting nerfed in case someone doesn't know.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/ppa-farm.204651/

That video is at pre-firstnerf HE cannon levels of infantry slaughter.

EDIT: Removed stuff about that guy on the PS2 forums for fear of hypocrisy primarily and also because I realized it wasn't helpful or nice really.

[beorn080]

As a fellow who recently purchased a PPA, ironically just because the basilisk was horrible and the PPA was cheapest aside from the "how exactly is this any better then the basilisk for a tank?" Kobalt, I have to say the issue is primarily the actual weapon design vs the other two ESAI tank secondaries. It is the same reason why, aside from its very high lack of power, the Lasher is technically better then either the super shotty or the minigun. I don't want to discuss, however, if the lasher is actually the best of the three heavy weapons, simply because variables. However, even with the nerfs/buffs, the PPA will still dominate the tank based anti infantry game for the simple reason of weapon design.

Both the Prowler and the Vanguard suffer from effective range with their AI weapons. The Vanguard especially. Personally, and this is my opinion, the way to fix the PPA is to make the other two weapons better. For the vanguard, make each pellet a minor explosive. Tiny tiny. Maybe .2m max damage radius, but even that might be too much. Just enough so that the pellets don't have to hit to hurt. For the prowler, and admittedly this would be harder to do, a double tap grenade launcher. Each grenade would split into two on impact, which would separate a bit and then explode on contact again. More saturation, but slight delay.

[Toaster]

I'd like to see that in a Prowler, and I agree that it's shocking that not a single NC shotgun fires explosive rounds.



Or just give the Canister about four times as many pellets with a much wider spread.

[DJ]

Any sort of close range AI weapon on an MBT is a really terrible idea, because C4 is a thing. Magrider is actually the least bad tank for this because it can evade infantry better, but Vanguards and Prowlers are just LA bait even if they have radar. Hell, even a Lightning with a canister would be much better than a Vanguard with one, because it can make use of the radar thanks to it's good acceleration.

[beorn080]

Agreed. When fighting infantry, its about the death zone. Canister has an instant death zone of, what, about 10m from the tank? The vangaurds zone is better, but I think the grenades are highly arced? I can't recall ever seeing the vanguard AI weapon in action so I'm not sure. Actually, I'd say the canisters damage should be cranked up, if not made into an explosive pellet shotgun, and drop the pellet count a bit. Like, flechette rounds that one or two hit infantry, but only four pellets a shot. I don't know. All I know is that the ppa is effective for the same reason as the lasher. Get high, rain down, and suddenly missing doesn't matter at all. The problem is that unless you Nerf the ppas damage into uselessness, there is still the issue that it is a slow velocity sniper weapon with no drop.

[Rex_Nex]

The Canister isn't quite that bad. 10m might be how close they need to be to reliably one-shot, but you can still keep up the pace with all other AI weapons (kobalt, for example) until a good 40m or so. The problem is that even though it keeps up the pace (ttk is quite good), the shots to kill compared to the relatively small magazine is really punishing. When an MBT's AI weapon needs to reload to kill more than two people at medium range, you have a problem. Its acceptable on the Harasser, but on the Vanguard? Nonono.

Anyway, I dont really feel like the other AI weapons should be brought up to the PPA's level, nor will they. If you see the kind of results PPA users get, it'd take a pretty warped view of the game to want every ESAI weapon to deal that much destruction. The main reason it wont happen, however, is that the dev team really want to reduce lethality, and making every weapon as powerful as the PPA is... uh... not in line with that mindset.

[beorn080]

I do agree with reducing lethality. I'm just not sure you can without dropping it to Lasher levels.

[Kanil]

Damage degradation over distance or something. If the PPA had a limited range, it'd be perfectly fine. It only gets dumb when you can park 275 meters from a doorway and just spam it mindlessly. If it's damage drops to something pitiful like 50 after X meters, then you'd still be able to spam it, but it'd be incredibly unrewarding to the point that you'd either give up or get closer and risk death.

[DJ]

I think they just need to reduce the accuracy. Should nerf it at long range pretty good.

[beorn080]

Damage degradation over distance or something. If the PPA had a limited range, it'd be perfectly fine. It only gets dumb when you can park 275 meters from a doorway and just spam it mindlessly. If it's damage drops to something pitiful like 50 after X meters, then you'd still be able to spam it, but it'd be incredibly unrewarding to the point that you'd either give up or get closer and risk death.

Can explosives have damage degradation? I mean, I'm sure the direct damage can, I just don't think there's any splody weapon that does less burst damage at range. Though, that would work perfectly. Seeing as its a ball of contained plasma energy and not a conventional explosive, it'd make sense for it to degrade. Thus, it would still deter folks at long range, cause even annoying damage is annoying and stops your shields from regenning, while not really allowing farm conditions.

Personally I'm not a fan of loss of accuracy in any sort of tank weapon. The whole point of tanks is to provide a stable platform for a big whoopin gun.

[Kanil]

You're right, I don't think they can. Perhaps they could make it like the opposite of a UBGL, where it has a maximum arming distance? That could work, but it might be too weird...

[DJ]

They can leave the first shot as accurate as it is, so you can single fire it at a distance but not spam it like you can now.

[SalmonGod]

Just a cool moment my brother shared with me

[Aseaheru]

Paid for those guns?

[Toaster]

I love the "Wait why am I alive" look-around he gives.