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[Svarte Troner]

Interesting video, but where are all the big oil company endorsements in the ending credits?

[Glowcat]

It is a very stupid strawman.  "Global cooling" never really gained too much of a scientific consensus (mainly because it was not supported by evidence).  And in any case it's irrelevant to the ten tonne gorilla that is the body of evidence supporting man made climate change.

It wasn't too far out a theory before people switched to cleaner fuels. It's important to note that "Global Cooling" didn't dismiss the effects which cause global warming but rather proposed an opposed effect to it which would overall result in a cooler environment. So the desired message of "Hurr Hurr, stupid scientists can't make up their minds and they're alarmist" is wrong and dishonest for several reasons.

[alway]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

This hypothesis had little support in the scientific community, but gained temporary popular attention due to a combination of a slight downward trend of temperatures from the 1940s to the early 1970s and press reports that did not accurately reflect the scientific understanding of ice age cycles.

Concern peaked in the early 1970s, though "the possibility of anthropogenic warming dominated the peer-reviewed literature even then" [2] (a cooling period began in 1945, and two decades of a cooling trend suggested a trough had been reached after several decades of warming). This peaking concern is partially attributable to the fact much less was then known about world climate and causes of ice ages. However, climate scientists were aware that predictions based on this trend were not possible - because the trend was poorly studied and not understood (for example see reference[11]). Despite that, in the popular press the possibility of cooling was reported generally without the caveats present in the scientific reports, and "unusually severe winters in Asia and parts of North America in 1972 and 1973...pushed the issue into the public consciousness".

Emphasis added. "Global cooling" was nothing more than a couple research papers whose significance was overblown and misrepresented by journalists unfamiliar with the actual science.

[Lagslayer]

On the subject of climate change, anyone remember this?

Besides, it wouldn't be the only issue scientists have used to get research money. I mean, look at all the popular theoretical physics stuff that's taken as the gospel. Proof by assertion indeed.

[Leafsnail]

On the subject of climate change, anyone remember this?

I remember being impressed that out of thousands of emails they found only like two that sound a bit bad out of context, both of which make complete sense in context.  That's really impressive professionalism (note the thousands upon thousands of emails about mundane data handling which would suggest they're not in any way making it up), normally when you see leaked emails there's tonnes of embarrassing stuff.

Besides, it wouldn't be the only issue scientists have used to get research money. I mean, look at all the popular theoretical physics stuff that's taken as the gospel. Proof by assertion indeed.

Oh, please give me an example of popular theoretical physics stuff that's taken as gospel.  Last I checked they were testing assertions down at CERN.

[Lagslayer]

Go up to random people on the street. Ask them what's on the "other side" of a black hole. Ask them about light speed travel. Ask them about any of this stuff. Then ask them where they heard it. I propose that greater than 90% of those answers about the black hole would involve the 4th dimension or time travel. And where they heard it, they will probably use some fictional source, like Star Trek, as reference. Furthermore, the experts control all the information because they are the only ones who can really obtain/test it, or understand it, so people trust them.

They were just fun ideas, so it was easy to sell it to people(think, people believe what they want to believe). Fun ≠ practical or correct.

[Leafsnail]

I... can't work out what you're saying at all.  Science fiction exists therefore there is a shadowy conspiracy between Stephen Hawking and Gene Roddenberry to create interesting science?  The whole point of science fiction such as Star Trek is to be speculative.  It's a shame if people misinterpret science fiction as true (although I think you're massively overstating it considering that science fiction isn't all that popular a genre) but I'm not sure how that makes it an issue scientists have used to get money (considering that scientists do not usually endorse science fiction as true) or an example of taking theoretical physics stuff as gospel.

[justinlee999]

Fight fire with fire.

[Lagslayer]

Please excuse me if the following post is a bit jumbled. I'm having a hard time organizing these points this morning.

Weather they meant the show to be taken as the gospel is irrelevant, because people will start doing it anyways. Don't look at the "right" answer, look at what everyone else thinks is the "right" answer to find out what they are going to do. Media does hold an awful lot of sway for a reason.

There's no money in letting people to believe/do whatever they do anyways. You gotta get them to all do the same thing so they are easier to pander to. It's easier to get people hooked on something outrageous and fun than something practical and boring. Keep shouting something outrageous and fun that people don't know how to disprove and eventually you will get them on your side, because it's more fun than the alternative and "well, you can't disprove it, so who's to say it's wrong".

All power in today's world is about controlling people. The strength of an individual? Trifiling next to the billions of others and the machinery. The intelligence of an individual? On a rare occasion, it can be significant on it's own, but not if people don't listen to you. It's generally much better to control a bunch of smart/strong people than to be smart/strong yourself.

[Fenrir]

Random people do not understand physics, and they cite Star Trek. Therefore, physicists exaggerate to get research money. Potato!

[alway]

On the subject of climate change, anyone remember this?

Read your own damn links.

Eight committees investigated the allegations and published reports, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct.

The committee criticised a "culture of non-disclosure at CRU" and a general lack of transparency in climate science where scientific papers had usually not included all the data and code used in reconstructions. It said that "even if the data that CRU used were not publicly available—which they mostly are—or the methods not published—which they have been—its published results would still be credible: the results from CRU agree with those drawn from other international data sets; in other words, the analyses have been repeated and the conclusions have been verified."

The report of the independent Science Assessment Panel was published on 14 April 2010 and concluded that the panel had seen "no evidence of any deliberate scientific malpractice in any of the work of the Climatic Research Unit." It found that the CRU's work had been "carried out with integrity" and had used "fair and satisfactory" methods. The CRU was found to be "objective and dispassionate in their view of the data and their results, and there was no hint of tailoring results to a particular agenda." Instead, "their sole aim was to establish as robust a record of temperatures in recent centuries as possible."

etc and so forth.

Also, Poe's Law.

[Lagslayer]

Firstly, I linked that because it was related and controversial. I wanted to stir up conversation and get people to post more stuff on it, and to see the fallout of the ensuing conversation (where certain people fell on the issue, etc.), as well as get some more info to look into myself. I didn't initially intend to push the issue myself. Basically, I was trolling for information.

From what i understand, those committees were all launched from the same inner circle supposedly falsifying the data in the first place. It's like the government launching an investigation on itself, making it judge, jury, and prosecution. Come to think of it, politics is pretty wrapped up in the climate change thing.

What I'm saying is, maybe people shouldn't be so trusting of those that control information that nobody but them can verify.

[alway]

From what i understand, those committees were all launched from the same inner circle supposedly falsifying the data in the first place. It's like the government launching an investigation on itself, making it judge, jury, and prosecution. Come to think of it, politics is pretty wrapped up in the climate change thing.

What I'm saying is, maybe people shouldn't be so trusting of those that control information that nobody but them can verify.

So... it's a conspiracy theory now. Lovely.

It said that "even if the data that CRU used were not publicly available—which they mostly are—or the methods not published—which they have been—its published results would still be credible: the results from CRU agree with those drawn from other international data sets; in other words, the analyses have been repeated and the conclusions have been verified."

An international conspiracy at that. Involving not only thousands of scientists, but which apparently has all the organisations doing the review in it's pocket too; organisations which include:
1 UK's Parliment and House of Commons
2 Pennsylvania State University
3 United States EPA
4 Inspector General of the U.S. Department of Commerce
5 National Science Foundation
As well as the numerous other organizations like the IPCC.

Uh huh. Let me guess, Obama was born on Planet X shortly before it crashed into the World Trade Center to enable the New World Order to put the Reptilians in FEMA camps.

[Lagslayer]

Don't be ridiculous! Everyone with half a brain knows Obama was born on Kashyyyk and is half Zergling!


On a more serious note, not everyone involved would have to be aware of what they were doing. Just the people at the very top. People working on the individual parts don't always know what the final product is. The Manhattan Project, for example. Most of the people working on it didn't know it was for a WMD!

[Frumple]

Half protoss, maybe. He'd probably have been more impressive thus far if he'd been part Zerg.