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[Lord Snow]

Do you need to construct track stops at every stop?

From the menu alone i thought i could just carve  a track, create route and add stops to the route whereever i please.
But the route i set didn't even go along the tracks carved, instead displaying a diagonal line from 1 stop to the other. And the cart set to be guided was filled to 100% (only condition i left at the stop) but never guided east as instructed.

Also, if i set a track

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---|will guide/push/ride east make it actually go around the u-turn or would it get stuck when it can't move any further east?

[Triaxx2]

You can. It always displays that line. Check to ensure that your dorfs have push/haul vehicle enabled. They might just be busy.

And yes, you can have a track that turns around like that, but it only works with guided unless you have rollers on the ends, turning it.

[Snaake]

If you use guide only, you don't need track stops, the dwarves will stop the cart at any hauling stops you've set up. They're needed for ride/push, though, or the cart will just zoom past the hauling stop.

And yes, that u-bend you drew would work for push/ride, if the corners are actually corners, and not N/S tracks as they might be interpreted. Or you could place rollers, yea. They'd basically stop at the end (or derail, if they have enough speed, which can also happen with a turn in the track, if you don't have walls on the outside bend of the track).

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 WIncluding walls necessary to prevent derails (assuming high-speed carts going in both directions).

[Lord Snow]

Errr.

I just made a track work.

but... when they put the cart back, they ignore the track. I built a circle. Push it down a pit, stop it with a constructed stock, dump wood, guide it back up through a fork in the track.
All working fine. Then they just leave the track when they're back out in the open, guiding the cart diagonally through grass to reach the 1st stop.

What are tracks for then? If i don't care about using dwarves for guidance, can i just have a dwarf-powered, entirely trackless hauling network?

[Snaake]

Errr.

I just made a track work.

but... when they put the cart back, they ignore the track. I built a circle. Push it down a pit, stop it with a constructed stock, dump wood, guide it back up through a fork in the track.
All working fine. Then they just leave the track when they're back out in the open, guiding the cart diagonally through grass to reach the 1st stop.

What are tracks for then? If i don't care about using dwarves for guidance, can i just have a dwarf-powered, entirely trackless hauling network?

If I make hauling networks, I prefer having them be push&roller-operated. I think if you only use guide, you can leave out the tracks. Should be easy enough to test. Even guided minecarts still won't go up/down stairs though, I guess.

[Lord Snow]

Errr.

I just made a track work.

but... when they put the cart back, they ignore the track. I built a circle. Push it down a pit, stop it with a constructed stock, dump wood, guide it back up through a fork in the track.
All working fine. Then they just leave the track when they're back out in the open, guiding the cart diagonally through grass to reach the 1st stop.

What are tracks for then? If i don't care about using dwarves for guidance, can i just have a dwarf-powered, entirely trackless hauling network?

If I make hauling networks, I prefer having them be push&roller-operated. I think if you only use guide, you can leave out the tracks. Should be easy enough to test. Even guided minecarts still won't go up/down stairs though, I guess.

They do.
At least normal up/down connections work, don't have any X stairways but i dont think they should be problematic.
What i noticed, though, is that the hauled cart was slow and only loaded with 3 rocks each trip.
guess without a track we don't get the Minecart physics

[Triaxx2]

You can also avoid crashes by using non-dump stops. Just alter the friction so it slows down the cart without completely stopping it, then a roller will be able to turn it without crashing.

[Mr S]

From what I've read so far in other threads, the !!science!! of frictions rollers is still pretty iffy.  How much is enough?  What about varrying mass of cargo?  And what of the cart itself?

[Snaake]

They do.
At least normal up/down connections work, don't have any X stairways but i dont think they should be problematic.
What i noticed, though, is that the hauled cart was slow and only loaded with 3 rocks each trip.
guess without a track we don't get the Minecart physics

Well, most people use up/down stairs (the X stairways) as their "normal connections", and ramps only/usually only when dealing with Trade Depots, or cart tracks. Of course the ramps work, I was saying that they might not use up/down stairs. Sure you don't have the cart set to leave when 50% full? Or maybe it takes long enough to load up to 50% that the default 2-week timer for that is already full?

You can also avoid crashes by using non-dump stops. Just alter the friction so it slows down the cart without completely stopping it, then a roller will be able to turn it without crashing.

It's still probably easier just to carve a turn into the track and use walls (if it's going fast enough that you need walls to avoid a derail).

From what I've read so far in other threads, the !!science!! of frictions rollers is still pretty iffy.  How much is enough?  What about varrying mass of cargo?  And what of the cart itself?

The testing I've done so far indicates that lowest rollers don't have any extra friction (beyond the track tile they're built on). A low track stop + the track it's on have a friction 5 times that of a normal track tile. Above that, it's a bit iffy still, but medium is about 50, high is at least 800, and I've yet to see a cart go through a highest friction track stop. For comparison, a dwarf pushes/1 tile of low rollers pushes with an energy of 200, 1 tile of lowest rollers at 50, medium at 450, high at 800, and for highest my best guess so far is 1250. Exact effects of longer or multiple rollers I haven't tested yet. I'm still halfway through testing ramps, but 1 ramp down gives something in the area of 500ish energy (depending on how fast it's going before ramping down, interestingly). For more info see this thread.

Yes, without a track, you're limited to guiding, and when guiding, a minecart is almost just like a big wheelbarrow (except you need to define routes, and they're not attached to only work with a specific stockpile).

[Lord Snow]

They do.
At least normal up/down connections work, don't have any X stairways but i dont think they should be problematic.
What i noticed, though, is that the hauled cart was slow and only loaded with 3 rocks each trip.
guess without a track we don't get the Minecart physics

Well, most people use up/down stairs (the X stairways) as their "normal connections", and ramps only/usually only when dealing with Trade Depots, or cart tracks. Of course the ramps work, I was saying that they might not use up/down stairs. Sure you don't have the cart set to leave when 50% full? Or maybe it takes long enough to load up to 50% that the default 2-week timer for that is already full?

And i was saying, up and down, not X ( = up/down) stair, work fine. So i suspect up/down would work just fine.

[wuphonsreach]

If you have a long track, what happens if you have multiple minecarts traveling in opposite directions at the same time along that section?

[Sutremaine]

Above that, it's a bit iffy still, but medium is about 50, high is at least 800, and I've yet to see a cart go through a highest friction track stop.

I have. But those highest-friction stops were at the bottom of a 100z ramp and the cart was going faster than 1 tile a tick. (It didn't take anywhere near 100 levels for it to achieve that speed, by the way.)

[Triaxx2]

I eagerly await the day dwarven science constructs a roller coaster to hell.

[wuphonsreach]

How do we go about diagnosing a problem with a minecart track? 

Even though I'm using 100% guided carts, I'm still having 1-2 accidents per year on the tracks.  The culprit is a long spiral (90 degree turns on the corners, then a 1 tile ramp down, then another 90 degree turn).  Even though I have track stops every 4 levels, it seems like I'm still having problems with this spiral.

The scary thing is that some of the accidents occur 1 z-level below a T junction where the track from above dead ends into the T, so you'd think the minecart would stop when it hits the wall.

I've checked burrows, and it happens at different points on the long spiral (20-30Z tall).  There's never a job cancellation announcement.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Errr.

I just made a track work.

but... when they put the cart back, they ignore the track. I built a circle. Push it down a pit, stop it with a constructed stock, dump wood, guide it back up through a fork in the track.
All working fine. Then they just leave the track when they're back out in the open, guiding the cart diagonally through grass to reach the 1st stop.

What are tracks for then? If i don't care about using dwarves for guidance, can i just have a dwarf-powered, entirely trackless hauling network?

They're not guiding the cart--they're carrying it.