Topic: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD (Read 699106 times)

pisskop · « **Reply #4605 on:** May 21, 2020, 08:55:48 am »

I dont follow. can you explain further?

It sounds like you have made a creature made of a material, now want add those creatures to a caste?

So like a copper liver on a dwarf that can be slaughtered to obtain said copper?

Quote from: Quantum Drop on May 21, 2020, 06:50:55 am

I've created a material resource creature to store a couple of custom materials for a single caste of creature, but I have no idea how to call on these materials. The two creatures are in separate .txt files. Anyone able to help?

P:

A reread sounds like you may have made a template for a creature or a creature mat. Can you show us

Quantum Drop · « **Reply #4606 on:** May 21, 2020, 09:12:02 am »

Quote from: pisskop on May 21, 2020, 08:55:48 am

I dont follow. can you explain further?

It sounds like you have made a creature made of a material, now want add those creatures to a caste?

So like a copper liver on a dwarf that can be slaughtered to obtain said copper?

In hindsight, I should have provided the raws from the start. I have a creature with a custom material defined below:

Spoiler: RAW material creature (click to show/hide)

And I'm trying to get a caste of the second creature to have certain body parts made out of this material. Is this possible?

Spoiler: Caste to add to (click to show/hide)

pisskop · « **Reply #4607 on:** May 21, 2020, 09:52:56 am »

Yes.

iirc

taking the material in question

Spoiler: goldsteel (click to show/hide)

Youre trying to use a living creature to make other living creatures from that. That's . . . not possible as such, though we can ensure that this is a material and a mythical creature. You might be able to find workarounds or hacks to do whatever you initially intended, such as slimers bursting from razor queens or queens spawning slimers, or them being allied or what have you.

In the slimer creature, youve defined a material. Thats it. Technically the creature (that doesnt exist) isnt even made of goldsteel, it just houses the material definition that this creature would use for a hypothetical goldsteel, if it were made from it or could excrete it.

1: by making goldsteel an official material (making a new material file and classifying it as a rock, tiusse, or whatever. Look to the inorganic or tissue files) you can then safely add the material to any creature without the game treating the materials as separate or you having to redefine it from scratch every time.
1b: you could also just redefine the material in the razor queen raws, but then youd have to keep defining it for every source of it, and then you couldnt make ores of it or do anything else with it. But for a one-off material, it works. Kind of like defining a syndrome for a creature or making something super resilient.

2: Then you need to tell the game to use it as an organic part of a creature. The tissue templates are how you do this. Body_detail_plan is what youd set up, making a template that includes goldsteel, which you can the specify for the creature.
2b: conversely, you could set tissue layers for the creature as per usual, the replace the relevant parts with goldsteel. ie replace all skin with goldsteel.

Spoiler: 2b example (click to show/hide)

^^ In here, the relevant part is how I modded out the skin and fat, and replaced it with wood. But I still had to make sure a material called 'wood' existed, and use a relevant tissue template. I used a mammalian template, and modded out the meat for wood.

Mim · « **Reply #4608 on:** May 21, 2020, 11:14:48 am »

Okay I just had the craziest idea. What if you modded in a creature made of wood and gave it [AQUATIC], [SWIMS_INNATE], [IMMOBILE], and [MOUNT]?

You would have boats! At least, I think so. Obviously these aren't the only tags you would need.

Also, you might ask, why do boats have [IMMOBILE] instead of [IMMOBILE_LAND]? Well, all sentient creatures would have 3 new interactions for adventurers to use: one that allows them to summon a moored boat, one that allows them to unmoor a boat, and one that allows them to moor a boat (kind of like how all sentient creatures have the spit interaction). Furthermore, there would be two types of boats: moored and unmoored boats. Moored boats would have [IMMOBILE], whereas unmoored boats would have [IMMOBILE_LAND]. The ability to summon moored boats is a little wacky, but you could sacrifice some wood and roleplay it I guess.

The unmoor interaction would only work on moored boats, and it would give moored boats a syndrome which causes them to transform into unmoored boats; conversely, the moor interaction would only work on unmoored boats, and it would give unmoored boats a syndrome which causes them to transform into moored boats. This allows adventurers to use boats without the boats moving around in the water of their own accord while not mounted, which would be ridiculous.

Also, I'm not sure about spawning these naturally. Maybe they could be common domestic pets? But I'm not sure what the AI would even do with them.

Would this work? Is it a bad idea? Any problems you foresee?
PS: I do realize that adventurers would be able to make the boats go underwater, but that won't be a problem as long nobody actually does it, since it would break immersion.

bloop_bleep · « **Reply #4609 on:** May 21, 2020, 11:26:24 am »

Well, where would you get the boats? Is it possible to specify only coastal areas as a spawning biome for creatures? Could there be a way to craft boats, perhaps via a summoning reaction?

This is a pretty interesting idea.

Mim · « **Reply #4610 on:** May 21, 2020, 11:27:18 am »

Quote from: bloop_bleep on May 21, 2020, 11:26:24 am

Well, where would you get the boats? Is it possible to specify only coastal areas as a spawning biome for creatures? Could there be a way to craft boats, perhaps via a summoning reaction?

This is a pretty interesting idea.

Thanks! I just added that to the post. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if summoning reactions are possible.

If they are, I'm thinking that maybe I could make a custom reaction which transforms wood into a custom boat item, which would be very heavy. This way you can carry a boat if you need to. Then, there would be a custom reaction which transforms the custom boat item into nothing, which causes a DFHack modtools/reaction-trigger to run modtools/create-unit to create a moored boat. There would also be another interaction which causes modtools/reaction-trigger run exterminate to kill a moored boat and also run modtools/create-item to create a custom boat item. If this works, the non-DFHack summoning interaction wouldn't be needed.

Anyway, the list of reactions and interactions is getting quite long. I'll make a concise one here, in the order that an adventurer would probably use them.
- Custom reaction which takes wood and transforms it into a custom boat item.
- Custom reaction which takes the custom boat item and transforms it into nothing, triggering modtools/reaction-trigger to run modtools/create-unit and create a moored boat.
- Custom interaction which uses a syndrome to transform a moored boat into an unmoored boat (or instead this could be done with DFHack, via modtools/interaction-trigger and modtools/transform-unit).
- Custom interaction which uses a syndrome to transform a unmoored boat into an moored boat (or instead this could be done with DFHack, via modtools/interaction-trigger and modtools/transform-unit).
- Custom interaction which uses modtools/interaction-trigger to run exterminate to kill a moored boat and run modtools/create-item to create a boat item

Would this work, or am I misunderstanding DFHack? I really hope that summoning interactions are possible.

Quantum Drop · « **Reply #4611 on:** May 21, 2020, 11:49:51 am »

Quote from: pisskop on May 21, 2020, 09:52:56 am

Yes.

iirc

taking the material in question

Spoiler: goldsteel (click to show/hide)
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:GOLDSTEEL:METAL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:razor queen chitin]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten razor queen chitin]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling razor queen chitin]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:GOLD]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SPEC_HEAT:500]
[MELTING_POINT:12718]
[BOILING_POINT:14968]
[SOLID_DENSITY:7850]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:6980]
[MOLAR_MASS:55845]
[IMPACT_YIELD:1505000]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:2520000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:940]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:1505000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:2520000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:940] 160
[TENSILE_YIELD:430000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:720000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:225] 200
[TORSION_YIELD:430000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:720000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:215]
[SHEAR_YIELD:430000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:720000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:215] no data, used 200
[BENDING_YIELD:430000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:720000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:215]
[MAX_EDGE:30000]
[ITEMS_HARD]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:GOLD]

Youre trying to use a living creature to make other living creatures from that. That's . . . not possible as such, though we can ensure that this is a material and a mythical creature. You might be able to find workarounds or hacks to do whatever you initially intended, such as slimers bursting from razor queens or queens spawning slimers, or them being allied or what have you.

In the slimer creature, youve defined a material. Thats it. Technically the creature (that doesnt exist) isnt even made of goldsteel, it just houses the material definition that this creature would use for a hypothetical goldsteel, if it were made from it or could excrete it.

1: by making goldsteel an official material (making a new material file and classifying it as a rock, tiusse, or whatever. Look to the inorganic or tissue files) you can then safely add the material to any creature without the game treating the materials as separate or you having to redefine it from scratch every time.
1b: you could also just redefine the material in the razor queen raws, but then youd have to keep defining it for every source of it, and then you couldnt make ores of it or do anything else with it. But for a one-off material, it works. Kind of like defining a syndrome for a creature or making something super resilient.

2: Then you need to tell the game to use it as an organic part of a creature. The tissue templates are how you do this. Body_detail_plan is what youd set up, making a template that includes goldsteel, which you can the specify for the creature.
2b: conversely, you could set tissue layers for the creature as per usual, the replace the relevant parts with goldsteel. ie replace all skin with goldsteel.

Spoiler: 2b example (click to show/hide)
[CREATURE:DIONAEA]
   [DESCRIPTION:A sentient and mobile plant with a robust digestive system.]
   [NAME:dionaea:dionaeii:dionaea]
   [CASTE_NAME:dionaea:dionaeii:dionaea]
   [GENERAL_CHILD_NAME:immature dionaea:immature dionaeii]
   [CREATURE_TILE:'D'][COLOR:6:0:0]

   [PETVALUE:200] change?
   [PET_EXOTIC]
   [MOUNT_EXOTIC]

   [NOBREATHE][NONAUSEA][NOPAIN][NO_FEVERS][NOTHOUGHT][NOBONES]
   [NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT]
   [CAN_LEARN]
   [SLOW_LEARNER]
   [NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
   [BIOME:SWAMP_TROPICAL_FRESHWATER]
   [BIOME:SWAMP_MANGROVE]
   [BIOME:MARSH_TROPICAL_FRESHWATER]
   [BIOME:FOREST_TROPICAL_MOIST_BROADLEAF]
   [BIOME:LAKE_TROPICAL_BRACKISHWATER]
   [BIOME:RIVER_TROPICAL_BRACKISHWATER]
   [SAVAGE]
   [CANNOT_UNDEAD]
   [CARNIVORE][CURIOUSBEAST_EATER]
   [BUILDINGDESTROYER:1]
   [SPHERE:NATURE]
   [SPHERE:PLANTS]

   [LARGE_PREDATOR]
   [LIKES_FIGHTING]
   [LARGE_ROAMING]
   [AMBUSHPREDATOR]
   [FREQUENCY:2] change?
   [POPULATION_NUMBER:1:7] change?
   [CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:7]

   [PREFSTRING:insatiable appetite]
   [PREFSTRING:tendency to sing]
   [CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]

   [BODY:PLANT_2PARTBODY:PLANT_MOUTH:CHOMPERS:6_ROOTS:3EYESTALKS:6_NO_CLAW_TENTACLES:GUTS:GIZZARD]
   [BODYGLOSS:MAW]
   [BODYGLOSS:TRUNK]

   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
      [REMOVE_MATERIAL:HAIR]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
      [REMOVE_TISSUE:HAIR]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:EXOSKELETON_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE]
      [REMOVE_MATERIAL:HAIR]

[RELSIZE:BY_CATEGORY:GIZZARD:500]

      [SET_LAYER_TISSUE:SKIN]
         [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:FAT]
         [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:MUSCLE]
         [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:BONE]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:WOOD:WOOD_TEMPLATE]
   [USE_MATERIAL:WOOD]

      [SELECT_TISSUE:SKIN]
      [TISSUE_NAME:derma:NP]

      [SELECT_TISSUE:FAT]
      [TISSUE_NAME:thorns:NP]

      [SELECT_TISSUE:MUSCLE]
      [TISSUE_NAME:fiber:NP]

      [SELECT_TISSUE:BONE]
      [TISSUE_NAME:xylum:NP]

   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
   [BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
   [STATE_NAME:ALL:fluid]
      [STATE_COLOR:ALL:YELLOW_GREEN]
   [CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
   [GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
   [GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
   [PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]

   [SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:GIZZARD]
   [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:GUTS]
      [TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
^^ In here, the relevant part is how I modded out the skin and fat, and replaced it with wood. But I still had to make sure a material called 'wood' existed, and use a relevant tissue template. I used a mammalian template, and modded out the meat for wood.

I've turned it into an inorganic material ([SPECIAL] tag should keep it from cropping up on Megabeasts or such, shouldn't it?) and added it into the relevant tissue. It seems to be functioning as it should, considering that it just wiped the floor with two Bronze Colossi, and no errors are showing in the log. Thank you so much for your help.

bloop_bleep · « **Reply #4612 on:** May 21, 2020, 12:01:13 pm »

Summoning interactions are definitely possible in the latest version of DF. There could be a reaction that produces some product that adds a syndrome to the user, which allows them to do a boat-summoning interaction very briefly (so they can only do it once).

Alternatively a reaction could produce a boat corpse which can then be resurrected by an interaction to a boat creature.

Mim · « **Reply #4613 on:** May 21, 2020, 12:07:41 pm »

Quote from: bloop_bleep on May 21, 2020, 12:01:13 pm

Summoning interactions are definitely possible in the latest version of DF. There could be a reaction that produces some product that adds a syndrome to the user, which allows them to do a boat-summoning interaction very briefly (so they can only do it once).

Alternatively a reaction could produce a boat corpse which can then be resurrected by an interaction to a boat creature.

That is absolutely awesome! I prefer the boat necromancy option. And since the boat corpse is an item, you would be able to carry it for portaging and stuff.

Can reactions produce corpses directly? I'm not sure how this would work, but maybe I'm being stupid and this is obvious. How would I specify a boat corpse as the product of reaction?

pisskop · « **Reply #4614 on:** May 21, 2020, 12:10:13 pm »

Quote from: Quantum Drop on May 21, 2020, 11:49:51 am

I've turned it into an inorganic material ([SPECIAL] tag should keep it from cropping up on Megabeasts or such, shouldn't it?) and added it into the relevant tissue. It seems to be functioning as it should, considering that it just wiped the floor with two Bronze Colossi, and no errors are showing in the log. Thank you so much for your help.

Yes, I think the [special] tag will prevent mons from spawning with it, kind of how it urine and feces are prevented from being used. And np, it took me a shameful amount of time to figure out material replacements the first time I did them.

Quote from: bloop_bleep on May 21, 2020, 12:01:13 pm

Summoning interactions are definitely possible in the latest version of DF. There could be a reaction that produces some product that adds a syndrome to the user, which allows them to do a boat-summoning interaction very briefly (so they can only do it once).

Alternatively a reaction could produce a boat corpse which can then be resurrected by an interaction to a boat creature.

Boats that can swimand move underwater may not be the best thing out there. But can be done and would likely make a cool mount!

bloop_bleep · « **Reply #4615 on:** May 21, 2020, 01:50:13 pm »

Maybe try a product of CORPSE:NONE:<boat creature>:<boat caste>? I'm not entirely sure if that'll work, though.

Can vermin remains be resurrected?

EDIT: As for using DFHack that way, yeah that could work.

nezclaw · « **Reply #4616 on:** May 23, 2020, 02:15:37 pm »

is it possible to assign, at random, a set of abilities to a creature? say, i want all the creatures to have one of eleven abilities, like firebreathing. would i need to use castes for that? because if so that's gonna result in... checks notes uhh 308 castes to account for every sex, breed, and element combination.

Eric Blank · « **Reply #4617 on:** May 23, 2020, 03:30:48 pm »

Quite frankly you cannot have that many castes. What I'm going to use (it's not done yet) for Spellcrafts is; a syndrome added by one of a number of plants/animals that gives a interaction that adds the desired abilities on a probability basis like some have a 10% chance of occuring others 1%. In my case it also adds one guaranteed but mostly useless permanent effect that prevents them from having another go at it (adding the original interaction again, permanently, so theyll use it on others to spread the effect to the entire population quickly), and on top of a small handful of effects anyone could get adds additional powers specific only to one species. (By using the syndrome [affected_creatures:x] token under an additional i_effect:syndrome in the interaction.)

I've tested this and it does work, the issue has been coming up with a way to spread it effectively in every population in both adventure and fort mode, and the way I've come up is;
1) give some of the creatures added by your mod the ability to do this interaction by default
2) add the syndrome that grants the interaction to some edibles available to civs in your mod
3) add it to some wools, plant cloths, silks, and/or leathers produced by creatures you give to your civ, which melt at room temperature. As soon as someone wearing clothes made out of it arrives on the map, the item melts, contaminating them with the syndrome, which grants them the interaction to spread the powers to themselves and everyone around them.

bloop_bleep · « **Reply #4618 on:** May 23, 2020, 07:10:29 pm »

Does POP_RATIO accept integers or floating-point numbers? Because if it's integers, you cannot have more than 100 castes and have them all show up in populations.

pisskop · « **Reply #4619 on:** May 23, 2020, 07:47:14 pm »

In theory each caste could turn into another caste . . .

News:

Author Topic: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD (Read 699106 times)

pisskop

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

Quantum Drop

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

pisskop

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

Mim

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

bloop_bleep

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

Mim

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

Quantum Drop

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

bloop_bleep

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

Mim

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

pisskop

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

bloop_bleep

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

nezclaw

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

Eric Blank

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

bloop_bleep

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD

pisskop

Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD